FED & Kiev questions from a newbie

[Malcolm_J]

Hello, I am glad I have at last registered for this excellent forum. I recently discovered Soviet rangefinders by accident whilst I was looking to buy a cheap SLR. I now have a FED2d and a Kiev 4a. Both excellent in their own way. I am massively impressed by the images from the FED in particular, with its Industar-61 lense. I have never seen pictures from any 35mm camera of any quality with such clarity and eery contrast. The Kiev is maybe just as good, but I've only run a single test film through it on a lousy Edinburgh December day, so I can't judge it fairly yet.

I was hoping the expertise here could answer my cusiosity on a few points.

1) What are the relative merits and drawbacks of the I-61 versus the I-50. I notice the Zorki 6 and some Zorki 4s are fitted with the I-50. It has a smaller maximum aperture than the I-50, which seems a drawback to me. Does it have advantages in other areas? I was thinking of getting a Zorki and was interested in knowing more about this lense.

2) My Kiev is functionally excellent (I imported it from a Russian seller on eBay). It arrived promptly in a little box, all intact! One gripe I have with it is that the focusing ring is rather loose in the camera body. There is visible play and rattle. I was thinking of returning it, but it does not affect the function so I didn't bother. Still, it is irritating and I would try and shim it out if that were feasible. Anyone have a fix?

I am aware of a similar problem with slackness between the lense and the mounting ring. This is described on the Kieve survival site. My problem is definitely the focusing ring, the lense itself is a perfect fit.

Something to watch out for when you buy a Kiev 4a is that the Helios lense is longer and heavier than a Jupiter. This means the case will no longer fit, without a hell of a struggle at least, over the lense, and the camera out of its case is nose-heavy. Just an annoyance, but be aware of it.

Many thanks, hope to here from you.

 

[Xmas]

Malcolm

The heliciod will normally rattle if it is not loaded with grease, it is probably best left dry, it is self lubricating. It will slow up finger wheel focusing if you add some grease... not recommended... try and ignore they all do this.
The Helios will only fit in a 4am style case - which has a large black plastic snout. Short of getting a 4am case you can replace the fixed rivet with a popper, and mount the now detachable front cover from the front, then do up the new popper and the old poppers.
A jupiter is tight fit if you use a filter or cap.

Noel

 

[physiognomy]

Welcome to RFF Malcolm! I'm sure you will like it here!

The I-61 is known for its sharpness, but especially it's high contrast & I would say that is where the main difference would lie between it and the I-50 besides speed.

It's good to see another Kiev user on the forum! There are plenty of us here... It seems you have already consulted Russ' kiev site & it does sound like something may be up with the helical on your camera if the play is excessive. All of my kievs have a little play when locked at infinity, but nothing that I would ever worry about. I have never attempted any work on a helical, but after removing two kiev shutters I can tell you it is a fun adventure taking them apart!

Peter

 

[Jocko]

Hallo Malcolm!

As Peter notes, the I-61 is well-regarded for its contrast and sharpness. It was the standard lens with FED cameras, whereas KMZ offered a range of 50mm lenses. I too have always found it excellent, especially for particular types of black and white work (many of the pictures in my gallery were taken with this lens).

The I-50 was the basic Zorki lens from the mid 50s to c.1970. In rigid form it is famous for its ugliness. Personally I have never felt that FED lenses looked right on Zorki's despite their merits - you might be better off with the widely available Jupiter 8, a fast and remarkably capable lens which people generally prefer to the rather pedestrian rigid I-50, and which has its own "leica glow"!

Cheers, Ian

 

[pshinkaw]

Malcom:

The Industar-61L/D has clickstops. Many of the other Soviet LTM lenses do not.

-Paul

 

[Malcolm_J]

Many thanks for these helpful replies. I'll probably just learn to live with the rattly Kiev lense as a foible; "best of Soviet engineering" and all that.

 

[Malcolm_J]

As a matter of interest, what experiences have you had with the FSU eBay camera shops on eBay? My own single experience was fine. Some of these shops have some really good stuff.

I would post a link to one in particular that has an impressive stack of FED2s, but would that contravene the site protocol on not promoting sellers? I really am not sure where I stand on this one.

 

[Screwy]

I've bought from a few Eb*y shops especially if the price is good but one thing to remember is the lower the price the poorer the camera , It's great if your a bottom feeder like myself 😀 who doesn't mind stripping and rebuilding cameras . But if your looking for a decent camera that just needs a little cleaning and lubrication be prepared to pay a bit more .




Paul

 

[Jocko]

I would post a link to one in particular that has an impressive stack of FED2s, but would that contravene the site protocol on not promoting sellers?

Only to the extent that salivating hyenas might be upset at being directed towards a herd of very tired myopic gnu with sore feet!

Actually, I think the occassional bad experience aside, most of the serious e-bay sellers are pretty solid and you get what you pay for, as Paul says. Many people here have a particular fondness for Alex-photo, for example 🙂

Cheers, Ian

 

[40oz]

Many thanks for these helpful replies. I'll probably just learn to live with the rattly Kiev lense as a foible; "best of Soviet engineering" and all that.

I'd say your camera is an aberration. I have a 78 Kiev 4a and a 79 Kiev 4 with matching year lenses, and both lenses have a little play on the 78 body, and none on the 79. The 78 focus mechanism sounds dry when the focus is turned through the range, while the 79 makes no noise, and is butter smooth. I have no idea how each camera was treated in the 27 some years since manufacture, so I can't logically fault the engineering or assembly. It would even be foolish to suggest it was normal sample variation coming out of the factory. For all I know, the 78 had been professionally "winterized" sometime in it's history, while the 79 sat in a trunk the whole time. There's just no way to know.

 

[SCOTFORTHLAD]

As a matter of interest, what experiences have you had with the FSU eBay camera shops on eBay? My own single experience was fine. Some of these shops have some really good stuff.

I would post a link to one in particular that has an impressive stack of FED2s, but would that contravene the site protocol on not promoting sellers? I really am not sure where I stand on this one.

Hello Malcolm,
Welcome,I rediscovered FSU cameras myself about a year ago.and have enjoyed it very much.I have not(yet),ventured into the Kiev range,but I have purchased acouple of items from Alex Photo on ebay,without any problems.My other purchases have been from other RFF Members,with great sucess.

A good Fed 2 is great fun.

Cheers,
Brian.

 

[vanyagor]

ebay experience: good. Out of more than 40 purchases of FSU stuff, none went wrong.

However it is always a guess as for the real condition of the camera. Some sellers give accurate but not complete descriptions. Not enough ground to leave them negative feedback, but the camera might happen to be in a not so good codition.

(In my experiece it was sometimes vise versa: camera was in better shape thanI expected)

Some sellers give very good pictures (which do show the drawbacks), but do not list them in description. Beware when a seller says in BIG FONT: "You get what you see in the pictures". It is often an indication of some small things which were not mentioned in the description. Their picture quality i decieving: you do not expect bad from them.

Some list just 1 unclear picture.

List of possible drawbacks that can't sometimes be seen from any picture and are often not mentioned in description:

- filter thread bent on the lens
- part of leather/vulcanite cover missing
- take up spool missing
- back cover loose
- screws missing
- rangefinder not adjusted
- camera case missing
- case straps broken or missing
- lens cap is usually missing (unless specifically mentioned)
- flash synchro not working
- exponometer not working
- lens not focusing correctly

You either need to take a chance blindly, ask seller or buy only from trusted sellers.
I have always took a chance and do not regret that. At least I strongly recommend to inspect all the pictures and read description carefully. Asking questions is a good idea as well.

If you want a camera in perfect condition for shooting rather than collecting, and do not want to aquire a bunch of cameras, then I would buy one fully CLAd from one of the (non-ebay) trusted sellers. Such as Oleg or fedka. You will pay at least twice more, but you'll be sure you will get what you need.

As for the prices on ebay: There are so many sellers of FSU stuf that prices should be very low. Unfortunately many folks here in US do not realize the actual cost of that equipment and pay more than it costs. (it always looks cheap comaring to Leica 🙂 )

Fortunately many FSU lots end at unconvenient for US times, so you can get a real good deal if you do some effort and have patience.

 

[Malcolm_J]

OK, well this is an eBay shop that impressed me. Not sure whether these are just "worn old gnu with sore feet" or not:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/stores-sibir-sergey

The guy seems pretty serious. He's got stacks of FED2s in various colours at very low prices. Maybe the recolouring won't last in use. Also, most of them are the older FED2s with I-26 lenses and the old speed standard 1/50, 1/100 etc etc. They look pretty smart in the photos though. Any experience with these older cameras? I am tempted, I must say.

He says modestly that these cameras don't compete with digital or Japanese cameras. I disagree. I think i's the other way around. My scruffy of FED takes more impressive pictures than any other 35mm images I have seen, be it Japanese or digital. I would even venture that there will be a significant "rangefinder cult" in the future, as more people appreciate the fun and quality - and dirt cheapness - of these cameras. I mean, it is true that they are rattly and crude, but they also are simple to use, don't need a battery, and they deliver. If I discovered them (I was not a photo enthusiast before ths) then many others will.

 

[Screwy]

Probably quite a few on here have bought from Sibir-Sergey ,I know I have in the past and always found him to be a decent seller , Just follow Vanyagors suggestions regarding buying from Eb*y and be prepared for the odd disappointment and don't forget to keep an eye out for bargains , I picked another 1958 Zorki 4 up on Eb*y last night for £17.65($34.50) including post and packing .

Also if your married be prepared for untold grief and nagging , as woman as a general rule can not see the purpose of having more than one camera , Even if they are bargains 😀


Paul

 

[vanyagor]

Also if your married be prepared for untold grief and nagging , as woman as a general rule can not see the purpose of having more than one camera , Even if they are bargains 😀


Paul

Just buy another piece of jewelery or some fancy clothes for her for every camera you get. ... Untill you run out of money (I already did)

 

[rolleistef]

Hey folks don't be that sexist, any sound person would think the same! We're not sound people that's all...
Btw, herzlich Wilkommen Malcom to the insane world of Former Soviet Union cameria, the place that no one was able to escape (except those who got a working Leningrad with a working Jupiter 3 at first try).

 

[rbiemer]

Malcolm,
Welcome aboard! I have had good results from Sibir-Sergey and will likely buy from him again.
I own and use both the I-50 and the I-61 and like them for different reasons:
The I-61 is a little faster, has click stops, good contrast, and uses relatively easy to find 40.5mm filters.
The collapsible I-50 makes for a nicely sized package and gives me good photos. The slight down side is that the a36 slip on filters are a little tougher to find.
You might consider a LTM Jupiter 8 as your next 50mm lens.
Rob

 

[Xmas]

40oz

I've tried my kievs and contax - if you remove the lens and rock the inner part of the mount you dont feel any slack, in yours? If they have been greased the slack may not be easily preceptible, but many are dry and the threads are self lubricating and wont retain grit/sand while dry? They will rattle if rocked while dry.

The lens should be tight in the inner mount otherwise you could try RussPinchbecks technique to tighten. Some people are fixated by slack, or tolerances...

Noel

 

[40oz]

Xmas,

In my Kiev 4a, the play in the focus mechanism is perhaps a 1/3 of a mm at the mount. This isn't much, but easily noticeable. If my other Kiev didn't exhibit effectively no play at all, I would assume it was typical. It appears any play is merely slack in the focus gear train, not the mount itself. I have no problems saying the camera is top notch, and don't think it is a sign of sloppy manufacturing. I have no intention of getting it "fixed," it isn't bothersome in the least. My Canonet has at least that much in several places, including the aperture ring, the shutter speed ring, and the mount itself, and that certainly doesn't feel "shoddy" in any way. It might be perceived as "rattly" by someone with a heightened expectation of perfection, I'm guessing.

The lens itself is tight on the mount, which is solid, except for the minute play in rotation. In no way does the play seem to be a problem, it merely exists. It doesn't bother me, and like I said, would not be worthy of notice if the other Kiev had so much less play. I suppose it is very possible the slack in one and lack of it in the other is a result of differences in lubrication.

The filter ring on the Jupiter-8M on the 78 Kiev 4a (the one with a bit of slack in the focus mechanism) has a rather impressive ding, so it is entirely possible the event that dinged the lens impacted the mechanism somehow. Time will tell if that is a problem.