FED-NKVD fakes ?

[Screwy]

Ive noticed an increased number of FED-NKVD,s being listed on Eb*y over the last few months with some looking exceedingly suspect Notice in the attached picture that the top cover appears to have been been media blasted .Now we know that Russian artisans are adept at faking early Leica,s from FED and Zorki one,s, is this possibly a new trend whereby you take a standard tatty FED1 and turn it into a more desirable (in some peoples eyes) FED-NKVD cccp/yccp model ?

Thoughts ?

 

[varjag]

I just look for seller's other items in cases like this. If their store is full of LTM Sonnars, TSVVS Kiev-4s and "Soviet Army Red Star" Jupiters, sure sign to stay away.

 

[Jocko]

Ive noticed an increased number of FED-NKVD,s being listed on Eb*y over the last few months with some looking exceedingly suspect Notice in the attached picture that the top cover appears to have been been media blasted .Now we know that Russian artisans are adept at faking early Leica,s from FED and Zorki one,s, is this possibly a new trend whereby you take a standard tatty FED1 and turn it into a more desirable (in some peoples eyes) FED-NKVD cccp/yccp model ?

Thoughts ?

I'm sure this is happening: I note that these cameras always feature coated lenses with standard f3.5 - 16 stops as opposed to the original uncoated 3.5 - 18s. Obviously, some genuine NKVD FEDs may have been altered to take postwar standard leica screw lenses, but it certainly makes me suspicious.

Cheers, Ian

 

[dexdog]

Gotta admit though that the camera pictured in the first post does exhibit really nice quality engraving- looks to be better than many of the faked leicas one sees on eBay.

 

[Jocko]

Gotta admit though that the camera pictured in the first post does exhibit really nice quality engraving- looks to be better than many of the faked leicas one sees on eBay.

I entirely agree - I was very tempted by an NKVD FED recently, until I saw the lens. I imagine the Nazi "Leica" market has become so debased that the quality fakers need to look elsewhere. There have been some subtly done RAF and Royal Navy (FED/Zorki) "leicas" floating around too

Cheers, Ian

 

[ZorkiKat]

"Kombinat" FED shown in picture likely genuine. Engraving looks much like the one in mine, unless I got a fake here too.

It's not likely that the FED NKVDs would be faked anytime soon. There were so many made of them. There were already 80.000 cameras made by 1938, just 4 years after production of the cameras commenced in 1934. The prewar cameras all carried the NKVD logo and production stopped only in 1941. The post war cameras no longer had the NKVD mark.

Jay

 

[ZorkiKat]

Also, the 'blasted' finish is common amongst the prewar cameras.

Jay

 

[Screwy]

I bow to your greater knowledge Jay , I think my paranoia was started by the number of sellers listing FED-NKVD,s as "genuine" thereby giving me the impression that there may be less genuine FED,s out there

The blasted finish , Does this commonly extend to the accessory shoe also as in the above pic ? not that such a finish would be an indication of a fake I'm just interested .


Paul

 

[Jocko]

I bow to your greater knowledge Jay
Paul

And so do I! Having found the E-bay auction which features Paul's camera, I think it's genuine. But, there have been a surprising number of cheap NKVD FEDs lately, some of which look pretty questionable to me. Take this example -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FED-1-NKVD-WW...ryZ30030QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

It has a postwar lens, a postwar shutter button and conveniently invisible engraving.... All of which might be entirely legitimate, but might equally indicate a re-engraved 1f.

Cheers, Ian

 

[sovietleica]

And so do I! Having found the E-bay auction which features Paul's camera, I think it's genuine. But, there have been a surprising number of cheap NKVD FEDs lately, some of which look pretty questionable to me. Take this example -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FED-1-NKVD-WW...ryZ30030QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

It has a postwar lens, a postwar shutter button and conveniently invisible engraving.... All of which might be entirely legitimate, but might equally indicate a re-engraved 1f.

Cheers, Ian

Hi

The number of series under, The round form of the rangefinder cover (under the selector and of speeds),The form of the accessory shoe and the shutter button, they are typical of a FED-1b.
To the first sight, I would say that it is a authentic camera. It if the lens is more modern.

Regards
Albert

 

[Jocko]

Hi

The number of series under, The round form of the rangefinder cover (under the selector and of speeds),The form of the accessory shoe and the shutter button, they are typical of a FED-1b.
To the first sight, I would say that it is a authentic camera. It if the lens is more modern.

Regards
Albert

Hi Albert!

In all the examples I've seen the shutter releases of NKVD FEDs have engravings on the top. Indeed, Princelle notes that the 1f was the first mass-produced FED to have a "flat" release. The other characteristics which you list were shared by the FED 1f.

I'm not certain that it is a fake - but I'm absolutely sure it isn't "original" and I am thus very sceptical about the NKVD FEDs that suddenly seem to have emerged.


All the best Ian

 

[sovietleica]

Hi Ian,

The skepticism is good, but with precaution.
I am not an expert, and therefore, send the one who knows mas that I. I believe that she will be interested in reading this.

http://www.fedka.com/Useful_info/Documents_by_Fricke/fed_detail.htm
Extracted of www.fedka.com

I him summarize only three paragraphs:

s/n 50501 - 51328
15. top of shutter release engraved with concentric circles (formerly smooth)
s/n 53799 - 57208
17. shutter speed dial platform changed from rounded to cornered
18. tab on accessory clip eliminated

Also I add a photo of my FED-1b and 1F of my modest collection, which up to this moment, in my major ignorance he believed good, indicating the differences.

Regards
Albert

 

[Screwy]

Very helpful post Albert Goes someway to alleviating my paranoia and I now have some idea what to look for when looking at early FEDs .

My initial post was made to see if anyone else felt that the number of FED-NKVD,s on Eb*y the last few months was possibly an indication that with the glut of Leica clones around at the moment and the rising interest of collectors in early soviet cameras , was it possible that some enterprising seller had decided rather than paint his collection of postwar FED,s lurid shades , maybe just re-engrave them as prewar FED,s ?

 

[Screwy]

Doh!
Just checked out your site http://www.sovietleica.com/ now bookmarked .




Paul

 

[sovietleica]

Hi Paul,
Not if is economically profitable, to smooth and to engrave again the cover of the rangefinder. but there are other details that you can verify.
To forge a camera with all his details, is not a good business, because he supposes too much effort (Unless we speak about very expensive articles).
What if it is more possible, is that along the life of our FED, in some repairs, there are in use pieces proceeding from different models, who can take us to confusions.

Regards
Albert

 

[ZorkiKat]

I bow to your greater knowledge Jay , I think my paranoia was started by the number of sellers listing FED-NKVD,s as "genuine" thereby giving me the impression that there may be less genuine FED,s out there

The blasted finish , Does this commonly extend to the accessory shoe also as in the above pic ? not that such a finish would be an indication of a fake I'm just interested .


Paul

I checked my NKVD Kombinat FED, and the blast finish does extend all the way to the accessory shoe. And it seems that my camera was made in the same week, if not the same day as the FED in the picture you attached! My camera is No. 115836, just 22 bodies away from 115814! The camera came from Kazakhstan, and I believe was found in a flea market. It's unlikely that it made a stop-over first at some forger's shop before it was sold cheaply.

The shutter button has a cocentric pattern engraved on it. My older FED have smooth shutter buttons. Same can be said of immediate postwar (pre 1951?) versions. The early buttons were sometimes shorter, but all were smooth. The cocentric design seems to have appeared with the
Kombinat-engraved cameras, or those perhaps (I'm guessing on this, based on the cameras I have) made from 1939 to 41.

Here is the top plate of my Kombinat FED:

The Kombinat:

An earlier FED NKVD from 1935 showing its short stubby, smooth-top shutter button and rather wide shutter speed dial. Note the curved ("toilet seat") shape of the platform below the shutter dial:

Jay

 

[ZorkiKat]

And so do I! Having found the E-bay auction which features Paul's camera, I think it's genuine. But, there have been a surprising number of cheap NKVD FEDs lately, some of which look pretty questionable to me. Take this example -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FED-1-NKVD-WW...ryZ30030QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

It has a postwar lens, a postwar shutter button and conveniently invisible engraving.... All of which might be entirely legitimate, but might equally indicate a re-engraved 1f.

Cheers, Ian

Hi Ian

Like Albert, I would say that the FED in suvorov's auction is genuine. The engraving does not show in the photographs because of the way the subject was shot and lit. The engravings in early FED tend to be thin and shallow, hence these would easily disappear in a flat-lighted photo.

I would think too that the camera has been modified to accept later FED lenses. The lens on the camera is the FED 50mm issued for FED-2. It could well mean that this FED has the standard 28,8 mm lens register, as well as properly pitched threads to accomodate most Leitz and later Industar and Jupiter LTM39lenses. I've done the same thing to a similar camera (my first repair project really) and it's now got a Leitz Summitar as its regular lens.

I can also tell you that many of the prewar FED were superbly built. They were just a few points shy of a typical Leica built during the same period. Having a prewar FED with corrected lens registers and mounts is like having a real Leica II.

Jay

 

[Jocko]

Albert, Jay - thankyou! One learns something every day in the FSU world!

I love the FED 1 and because I hate to see them rebranded as Leicas or whatever, I tend to "react strongly" to the possibility of fakes - well-meaning, but happily, in this case wrong!

All the best, Ian

 

[wolves3012]

I have number 99254 which is a "Kombinat" engraved one from (I think) 1939. It has the concentric-ringed shutter button and the "blasted" finish extends to the accessory shoe on it. I don't think it has the original lens because the threads are rather tight.

 

[zhang xk]

I checked my NKVD Kombinat FED, and the blast finish does extend all the way to the accessory shoe. And it seems that my camera was made in the same week, if not the same day as the FED in the picture you attached! My camera is No. 115836, just 22 bodies away from 115814! The camera came from Kazakhstan, and I believe was found in a flea market. It's unlikely that it made a stop-over first at some forger's shop before it was sold cheaply.

The shutter button has a cocentric pattern engraved on it. My older FED have smooth shutter buttons. Same can be said of immediate postwar (pre 1951?) versions. The early buttons were sometimes shorter, but all were smooth. The cocentric design seems to have appeared with the
Kombinat-engraved cameras, or those perhaps (I'm guessing on this, based on the cameras I have) made from 1939 to 41.

Here is the top plate of my Kombinat FED:

The Kombinat:

An earlier FED NKVD from 1935 showing its short stubby, smooth-top shutter button and rather wide shutter speed dial. Note the curved ("toilet seat") shape of the platform below the shutter dial:

Jay

Hi Jay,

I agree that the camera is a real one. But I read the S/N of your camera is 158836.:bang: That is a very unusual S/N for a FED NKVD. What do you think?

Cheers,

Zhang