FED/Zorki vandalism!

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Grytpype

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Amazed and saddened to see this lot of 'Leica copy' cameras from a Czech based seller. It looks as though there is a production-line churning out these things. Are FED/Zorki still ten-a-penny in the former Soviet Bloc countries?

Personally I'd much rather have an unmolested FED than a butchered wood-grain Leica Panzerkampf copy, but I can't afford UK prices. Maybe I need a holiday in the Czech Republic!
 
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Not exactly a production line, but these things have been readily avalable fpr a very long time. A friend of mine used to import them sporadically into the UK in the 1990s.

The cameras on which they are based are hardly valuable, and they are about as reliable as picture-takers as any other FSU camera, so it's not so much vandalism as recycling or even value added. Very few people are taken in by Reichsadler Luxus cameras, after all. My chum gave it up when he found that people were selling them on as real.

Cheers,

R.
 
Zorki 1's are available now from UK sellers for up to £45 and there is one at the moment that is listed for a start price of 99p. that's quite a bit less than the silly prices they're asking for those funny painted ones.

There must be some kind of demand because he's sold 4 of them since 9-August and i have seen people show them off here on RFF - can't be a bad bit of profit for him as he probably gets his hands on them for fractions of a penny.
 
Though the seller is registered here all the items are located on Ukraine so you need holiday in Kiev🙂

Grytpype said:
Amazed and saddened to see this lot of 'Leica copy' cameras from a Czech based seller. It looks as though there is a production-line churning out these things. Are FED/Zorki still ten-a-penny in the former Soviet Bloc countries?

Personally I'd much rather have an unmolested FED than a butchered wood-grain Leica Panzerkampf copy, but I can't afford UK prices. Maybe I need a holiday in the Czech Republic!
Click to expand...
 
Roger Hicks said:
The cameras on which they are based are hardly valuable, and they are about as reliable as picture-takers as any other FSU camera, so it's not so much vandalism as recycling or even value added.
Click to expand...

OK, they're perhaps not exactly rare (yet), but they don't make them any more, and destroying an original 60-year-old camera to make a glitzy fake is vandalism in my book.

Of course I see older 'leica copies' all the time on eBay, but I didn't realise the business was still thriving, and turning out so many 'Leicas', now that honest FED 1 and Zorki 1 cameras make good prices. The going rate on eBay in the UK for an un-butchered late FED 1 or Zorki 1 seems to be about £35 - £50, which seems quite a lot to me.
 
Grytpype said:
OK, they're perhaps not exactly rare (yet), but they don't make them any more, and destroying an original 60-year-old camera to make a glitzy fake is vandalism in my book.

Of course I see older 'leica copies' all the time on eBay, but I didn't realise the business was still thriving, and turning out so many 'Leicas', now that honest FED 1 and Zorki 1 cameras make good prices. The going rate on eBay in the UK for an un-butchered late FED 1 or Zorki 1 seems to be about £35 - £50, which seems quite a lot to me.
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I see your argument, which is perfectly valid if you accept that they are 'destroying' a camera, and that the 'unbutchered' camera has any more inherent value than the 'butchered'; but I still don't agree with you.

They're not doing anthing that makes the camera any more or less useful (unless you count conspicuity), and indeed, from what I understand, most of these cameras are overhauled so they work, which ain't always the case with 60-year-old Soviet cameras. So as a camera it's a zero-sum game.

As I understand it, these cameras are indeed still cheap in the FSU, and with labour rates as low as they are in Ukraine, the chance to double your money (or better) seems fair and reasonable. Most Eastern European photographers I have met, who can afford better cameras (which to them means German or Japanese) will buy them: retro-chic and Ostalgia are even less common there than they are here, precisely because they had to live with so much junk for so long. And let's face it, FSU camera fans are a pretty small niche even in the Western Europe or the USA.

As an example of junk, a friend of mine (Mike Shushakov) was Photographer to the Supreme Soviet in the dying days of the Soviet Union. He lent me a Horizont, but warned me always to take two or three pictures of anything important because the swing lens didn't always swing smoothly. He had ordered a box of these cameras (six to the case) and chosen the best. This is the Supreme Soviet we're talking about!

Cheers,

R.
 
Admitted, they aren't a quality camera - one of the reasons I'm not keen to pay eBay prices. Maybe there are enough FED/Zorki 1's left in the FSU to support the Leica copy industry for now, but the supply must be diminishing by the day. At least the situation should be self-limiting. When the number of Leica copies exceeds the number of genuine FED/Zorkis they will be too valuable to convert.

I see your argument too, Roger, and I'm sure you are right that these cameras are probably much more usable after being turned into Leica copies than they were as mouldering FEDs, but I think a lot of us use the cameras we do because we like to use something 'interesting', with some history behind it; otherwise we would be better off with a digital P & S.

The conversions don't have any history, and I think they are much more interesting as they were when manufactured. If I'm truthful I'd have to say I'm also worried that supplies will run out, and prices increase before I get around to buying one!
 
Maybe there are still enough FED/Zorki 1's left in Russia/Ukraine, but when it comes to other FSU or former Eastern Bloc (Baltics, Poland etc.) those cameras are priced on ebay level if in good shape. I visit flea markets there from time to time, but it's hard to find anything cheap and in decent condition. I bought this year quite nice Zorki 1c with Industar 22, but had to pay 40 EUR and 20 EUR was the cost of CLA. Not exactly a cheap camera...
 
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Grytpype said:
Admitted, they aren't a quality camera - one of the reasons I'm not keen to pay eBay prices. Maybe there are enough FED/Zorki 1's left in the FSU to support the Leica copy industry for now, but the supply must be diminishing by the day. At least the situation should be self-limiting. When the number of Leica copies exceeds the number of genuine FED/Zorkis they will be too valuable to convert.

I see your argument too, Roger, and I'm sure you are right that these cameras are probably much more usable after being turned into Leica copies than they were as mouldering FEDs, but I think a lot of us use the cameras we do because we like to use something 'interesting', with some history behind it; otherwise we would be better off with a digital P & S.

The conversions don't have any history, and I think they are much more interesting as they were when manufactured. If I'm truthful I'd have to say I'm also worried that supplies will run out, and prices increase before I get around to buying one!
Click to expand...

Basically, I'm on your side. The conversions seem pretty pointless to me. It's more of a difference of opinion than a disagreement. Either viewpoint is 100% defensible. I'd REALLY like a well rebuilt, guaranteed version of the camera, rather than a barely-working, tarted-up mock-Nazi version

Cheers,

R.
 
The Leica-copy Natzified creations seem to have a following amongst collectors, certainly they aren't my taste but each to their own. Unfortunately, they're often made from one or more "basket-cases" which had no real saleable value. If they were made from a decent, serviced and fully working example they'd be good users but that is by no means guaranteed and is often not the case at all. As an ornament, if it's your tase, why not? As a user, no thanks!

Since they're still relatively common cameras, I don't think this practice is going to cause a world-shortage of FSUs but I wish they'd just return them to "standard".
 
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