vieri
Leica Ambassador
Al, thank you very much for posting this - I completely agree with you on the equipment vs. photography point you make here. As far as Frank, the last time I was back home in Milan (a couple of weeks ago, that is) I was lucky enough to be able to catch a Frank exhibition, and finally could put my grubby hands on a copy of The Americans! Of course, I am too young to have direct visual memories of, and to remember an age a couple of decades before I was born, but as an avid modern history reader & Frank admirer it was fantastic to finally see quite a few of the prints included in The Americans (together with some of his earlier and later work) live & big sized on these walls. An exhibition of pictures of mine - an essay on life on the border of society in Istanbul - was opening in Milan in the same days (reason for my going there) and seeing Frank work was of course some sort of a very good reality check for me, in a way; most of his stuff is really fantastic to look at besides the "historical" & "essay" meaning; some lived less well through the test of passing time, but it was a fantastic experience nevertheless. I also do agree with your point about the loss of getting together and sharing time between photographers; I guess the internet replaced it, even for people in the same area, in a way: I am not sure this is for the best, but definitely this offers a huge opportunity for people of all over the world to sit over a virtual coffee and chat/discuss photographical matters - as we are doing now, for instance: I would probably never have been able to talk to you in the real world, and we are here and now corresponding instead. This could be a great medium, but - as all mediums - is only good as the use one makes of it: hence, coming back to the beginning, my agreement with you on the use of the internet medium, mostly gear-headed talks rather than photographical discussions; and on the use of the camera medium, mostly collector/pampering/amateur in the worse way of the term.
It's up to us, I think, to put what media we have to a good use. And this thread, for what I could see so far, is a very good step in that direction - thanks again for starting it
It's up to us, I think, to put what media we have to a good use. And this thread, for what I could see so far, is a very good step in that direction - thanks again for starting it
raid
Dad Photographer
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Cool, now I know more about Al Kaplan *and* Robert Frank.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
My blog thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com started out as a way to post old photos of mine and write about my memories, with plans for editing it into a book, but it makes side trips into local politics, fishing, my family. Until a few weeks ago it had been a daily thing for close to three years, and if you were to actually read the entire thing non-stop you'd be reading for something like three days and nights...LOL
Let me take this opportunity to thank all of you who have contributed to this discussion. I'm really not as anti-digital as I come across sometimes. I just can't see learning all the new techniques and investing in the equipment at this stage in my life. My doc says I'm good for another thirty years, while the statistics say more likely about fifteen max. As for the collectors and fondlers, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't have picked up some great bargains of clean barely used equipment at estate sales. Like I tell my son, don't sell my stuff as a lot. List every item seperately from lens hoods and caps to LTM/M bayonet adapters.
While you're out shooting during the New Years weekend give some thought to starting another thread to keep up the interaction amongst all of us. Maybe get together with other photographers in your area once a month and exchange ideas. Mentor a younger (or older) photographer. Try to encourage the women who lurk here to contribute. I know that they're out there! The Miami Herald has several great women photographers.
Let me take this opportunity to thank all of you who have contributed to this discussion. I'm really not as anti-digital as I come across sometimes. I just can't see learning all the new techniques and investing in the equipment at this stage in my life. My doc says I'm good for another thirty years, while the statistics say more likely about fifteen max. As for the collectors and fondlers, if it wasn't for them I wouldn't have picked up some great bargains of clean barely used equipment at estate sales. Like I tell my son, don't sell my stuff as a lot. List every item seperately from lens hoods and caps to LTM/M bayonet adapters.
While you're out shooting during the New Years weekend give some thought to starting another thread to keep up the interaction amongst all of us. Maybe get together with other photographers in your area once a month and exchange ideas. Mentor a younger (or older) photographer. Try to encourage the women who lurk here to contribute. I know that they're out there! The Miami Herald has several great women photographers.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Wow - I did not know that! Living a short hop from there I will be sure to keep an eye open for the exhibit. Thank you for the heads up!
George S.
How many is enough?
Al, all good thoughts that we should all try to take with us into the New Year. Thank you for all that you contribute both here and elsewhere. You certainly give us all some much needed humanity to go along with all this crazy, cold, metallic rangefinder obsession and discussion of ours. I've enjoyed your blog in the past and will for hopefully a long time into the future. Peace and Health to you and all my friends here ar RFF.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
I keep telling myself things like this.
With the penetration of digital cameras its getting harder to just photograph people in a passer-by kind of way, and the character of the native folk around here doesn't do much good either. The Northern Dutch are rather suspicious and held-back people. I live in a 60.000 citizen town that still is largely a farmers town by mentality.
Yet, I keep shooting as much as I can, since I hope some shots prove their value in ten or twenty years time.
And, the internet allows for a whole new audience. If I were to show a shot from a lamp post or a garbage can to fellow citizens here, no one would applaud me, but on the net I find myself marveling at the shots others took of their lamp posts and garbage cans.
That I'm always on the lookout for a more exciting subject goes without saying
marke
Well-known
Al, I (fondly) remember reading about Carltus in your blog. This is exactly the kind of work I hope to do more of myself. For me, it's the connections and relationships with others that photography can bring to us, that make it so rewarding.
Thank you, Al, for being that inspiration for so many of us.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The year seems to have ended on a positive note! Intelligent and interesting discussion with only minor side bars regarding equipment. Maybe this can set the standard for 2009!
Happy New year to you Al and everybody else on RFf. May all your exposures be perfect and every shot interesting.
Tom A
Happy New year to you Al and everybody else on RFf. May all your exposures be perfect and every shot interesting.
Tom A
tom_uk
Established
I'm afraid I'm one of the minority who don't 'get' The Americans. Having read so much about the book I bought a copy of the new edition this summer. I was rather disappointed.
Perhaps I don't get them because I'm not american, in fact. I can see that, at the time the book was published, it would have been a unique mirror to the society and the nation; there would perhaps have been a frisson of recognition: "all these people, despite their differences, have a similarity to me". But as a non-american, and in the context of seeing them 50 years after they were taken when so many of the issues and concerns of that time have vanished, their significance seems more historical than anything else. For example, did they really have rodeos in Detroit?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not denigrating them, just saying that I'm not seeing what gives them the high regard which other people give them. Perhaps I should look at the book again.
Perhaps I don't get them because I'm not american, in fact. I can see that, at the time the book was published, it would have been a unique mirror to the society and the nation; there would perhaps have been a frisson of recognition: "all these people, despite their differences, have a similarity to me". But as a non-american, and in the context of seeing them 50 years after they were taken when so many of the issues and concerns of that time have vanished, their significance seems more historical than anything else. For example, did they really have rodeos in Detroit?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not denigrating them, just saying that I'm not seeing what gives them the high regard which other people give them. Perhaps I should look at the book again.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
It was photographed by a guy from Switzerland. It depicts a culture just getting over the ravages of the Great Depression and the hardships of fighting two wars at once, the Japanes on one side of the planet and the Germans on the other. Most families had just one car if they had any at all, and most women didn't drive. A fair amount of rural people still pumped water from a well and had no electricity.
Kids went to "the movies" as a Saturday treat to see the latest cowboy movie. When the rodeo came to town it was a big deal! People actually attended high school baseball games. The bleachers were full. Football was just a college sport. Television was in its infancy. Live in a big city and you might have two or three channels to watch on a 7 inch screen. In the outlying suburbs perhaps one you could actually watch and one with static for sound and a "snowy" B&W picture. Elsewhere television was something you'd read about and hoped to someday be able to afford. The broadcast lasted from maybe early afternoon to fairly early in the evening.
Kids went to "the movies" as a Saturday treat to see the latest cowboy movie. When the rodeo came to town it was a big deal! People actually attended high school baseball games. The bleachers were full. Football was just a college sport. Television was in its infancy. Live in a big city and you might have two or three channels to watch on a 7 inch screen. In the outlying suburbs perhaps one you could actually watch and one with static for sound and a "snowy" B&W picture. Elsewhere television was something you'd read about and hoped to someday be able to afford. The broadcast lasted from maybe early afternoon to fairly early in the evening.
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marke
Well-known
Johan, I'm pretty new at shooting street, having only started about 2 years ago (after getting bored with wildlife photography.)
But I can relate at some level to the difficulties you see in your particular culture. However, I think this actually provides a doorway towards some very rich opportunities that someone living in an "easier" area to shoot street might never take the time to consider. Sometimes I get frustrated myself, with the paranioa that many people have with being photographed in public.
So I tell myself that this is a perfect opportunity to form a relationship with someone I find interesting. I think you have to have a GENUINE desire to know that person, so that both of your lives can be enriched by the experience. That will help you develop a level of trust with that person, and before you know it, you might find them ASKING you to take a picture of them. And someday you might find yourself in the same place that HC-B did. Afer conversing with his subject for a while, they finally asked him when he was going to take their picture. He replied, "I already did!"
OTOH, I don't always find this process easy, being a natural introvert myself (although my wife would argue that point), but that's what makes this whole journey exciting for me. Nothing truly rewarding in life comes easy. The camera has not only become an instrument to take pictures of people, it has now become an instrument for me to make new aquaintances, or even friends!.
.
But I can relate at some level to the difficulties you see in your particular culture. However, I think this actually provides a doorway towards some very rich opportunities that someone living in an "easier" area to shoot street might never take the time to consider. Sometimes I get frustrated myself, with the paranioa that many people have with being photographed in public.
So I tell myself that this is a perfect opportunity to form a relationship with someone I find interesting. I think you have to have a GENUINE desire to know that person, so that both of your lives can be enriched by the experience. That will help you develop a level of trust with that person, and before you know it, you might find them ASKING you to take a picture of them. And someday you might find yourself in the same place that HC-B did. Afer conversing with his subject for a while, they finally asked him when he was going to take their picture. He replied, "I already did!"
OTOH, I don't always find this process easy, being a natural introvert myself (although my wife would argue that point), but that's what makes this whole journey exciting for me. Nothing truly rewarding in life comes easy. The camera has not only become an instrument to take pictures of people, it has now become an instrument for me to make new aquaintances, or even friends!.
.
I keep telling myself things like this.
With the penetration of digital cameras its getting harder to just photograph people in a passer-by kind of way, and the character of the native folk around here doesn't do much good either. The Northern Dutch are rather suspicious and held-back people. I live in a 60.000 citizen town that still is largely a farmers town by mentality.
Yet, I keep shooting as much as I can, since I hope some shots prove their value in ten or twenty years time.
And, the internet allows for a whole new audience. If I were to show a shot from a lamp post or a garbage can to fellow citizens here, no one would applaud me, but on the net I find myself marveling at the shots others took of their lamp posts and garbage cans.
That I'm always on the lookout for a more exciting subject goes without saying
noah b
Established
The Americans is one of my favorite books. After I saw that book I decided it was time to get a Leica. It was the first work that really motivated me to get out and challenge myself as a photographer.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
A point often not taken is that "The Americans" isn't about great photography it's about outstanding editing and layout. It showed how powerful a photobook could be rather than a book of photos.
Can i thank everyone here for helping to make this a civilised corner of the web and a great pleasure to visit and wish all the very best for the New Year?
Can i thank everyone here for helping to make this a civilised corner of the web and a great pleasure to visit and wish all the very best for the New Year?
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I couldn't agree more. These days it seems like so many photographers have forgotten that the first priority is the picture, not the gear we shoot with.
But I suspect it's always been something like that. After all people like Frank and the others don't exactly grow on trees. Even mere mortals, who are good photographers aren't that common.
But regardless there does seem to be a greater emphasis on technology and technique than ever before.
Too many people also seem to be looking for a magic technical formula. As if that is the key to making good pictures. There is no formula or step-by step instruction manual you can follow to make 'The Americans'. Instead you need to open your eyes, mind and heart and look at the world around you. If you have the necessary talent you may turn out something great, but even if not, at least you say you gave it your best shot.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
As was mentioned earlier, not only was Frank an 'alien' who saw things differently, but the book also depicted an America that did not match the popular image of the country, then prevalent in the media. This was 1958. The Eisenhower era. Think Poodle skirts and crew cuts. Then comes along 'The Americans', which is like a long dark poem and contrary to the image of the country.
I'm glad it's back in print. I had heard about it for years, but it was out of print and copies were very expensive and difficult to come by. I picked up a copy when Steidl did the reissue this year and finally got to see the whole book.
PS: The printing of the reissue is really nice...
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Harry Lime
Practitioner
I wish I got more of that. Everyone just wants to talk gear...
Nh3
Well-known
I can describe the details on every picture in The Americans by memory, so I could not help but offer my opinion and disagree with your statement above.
The first time I looked at The Americans, I came across the photo of the black man polishing shoes inside a public washroom, I simply froze.
I did not believe such an occupation existed. The whole job description was nothing but purely sadistic. Not only a man is humiliated by polishing shoes, but doing it inside a public washroom with the smell and people reliving themselves...
There is no honor in what that man was doing and there was no honor when black people sat in the back of the bus and Frank in his genius captured it in one single frame.
The ominous looking cowboys in the bar, the men in silk suits and hats, the guy with black glasses and a cigar in his hand, the man in military recruitment center with his feet on the table. Those are all extremely sinister characters and they must have scared frank that he felt like photographing them... Frank's book is a pure document with no sentimentalism. Honor and sensitivity are alien words to Frank. He went out with his camera to capture what he thought was the "real America" behind all the euphoria and optimism of 1950s.
I fully agree about Frank's qualities as a photographer but I worship Frank for his courage. The guy was/is absolutely fearless.
p.s. the picture of the empty highway in desert was shot using a tripod.
FrankS
Registered User
Why, thank you, Nh3.
Harry, I talk more about gear because photos speak for themselves (or should).
Harry, I talk more about gear because photos speak for themselves (or should).
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
I would disagree with this. The guy just went out and took some pictures. The book is testament to the stuff he saw. When you take really good pictures, and do it consistently and can display that with balance, you get a book like the americans. It is doubtful that he went out to do anything beyond take some pictures...