Film and the "b-word" ... budgeting

helvetica

Well-known
Local time
9:20 PM
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
239
Film is not always cheap, and it's certainly not free. My journey with the home darkroom and home development started with the usual mix-match of different films and whatever developer I could get a hold of. Fixing an image onto a little strip of plastic was magical in its own right. As I progressed into shooting with intention, I fell into two bad habits:

- Not buying what I wanted. The stock I shot a lot of was cheap, and probably not that bad in it of itself - but it did not have the look that I wanted... but it was cheap!
- Trying to be too conservative with chemicals - Although I knew it was "wrong", it was still making images, so I used my developer long after it should have been discarded

I always enjoyed shooting, but the development never lived up to my expectations. I often would shoot, scan, file the negs away and never really think about them again. This all came to a "crisis of identity" when I started to get serious about printing - I just could not find many negs that I wanted to print. The contrast, grain, and sharpness where all uninspiring. I committed to giving it one more try, but this time with the film stock I would want to shoot, and forcing myself to not cheap out on the chemistry - what a difference it made. There are more shots on this first roll that I want to try printing than all of my previous rolls combined.

My takeaway is that shooting film is a choice we make, and if we are going to devote the expense and time to do it, we are robbing ourselves when we make sacrifices to save money. Instead, look at the cost in the long run and include that in your personal / family budget. Yes, my cost-per-roll is now double what it used to be, probably close to $5/roll once it's shot, developed, and archive sleeved - but if I budget for 1 roll a week, that's sacrificing the equivalent of 1 Starbucks drink a week to give me the opportunity to make 4+ interesting images a day. I know that the bottleneck is now my time and creativity, not the finances.
 
My takeaway is that [insert any pursuit in life] is a choice we make, and if we are going to devote the expense and time to do it, we are robbing ourselves when we make sacrifices to save money.

See my amendment to your statement.

There is great benefit to frugality but when it is exercized by a cheapskate (not implying that you are a cheapskate) then it is a hinderance to any pursuit in life.

My takeaway is that spending money for stuff is OK as long as it is not wontonly wasteful.

Many of us struggle with this... me included.
 
Sorry, but how the f@#$% can developing be expensive to the point that you need to compromise?! I mean, even E-6 single-shot is 2 EUR per roll. BW is not even close to 1 EUR.

Where do you live?
 
Sorry, but how the f@#$% can developing be expensive to the point that you need to compromise?! I mean, even E-6 single-shot is 2 EUR per roll. BW is not even close to 1 EUR.

Where do you live?

It's not expensive once you have a system going - but when you first start it all adds up. If you are choosing between a $120 50/1.8 and a $25 tank, $15 in chemicals, $40 in (bulk) film, $20 bulk loader, funnels, chemistry tanks, $7 worth of sleeves, and $100+ scanner - it's easy to get sticker shocked and make [mistakenly] overly-cautious decisions. Once you have all of that and all the lenses you really want, then yes - it is easy to see that $7 for a bag of D76 that makes two gallons of developer @ 1:1 is a non-issue. It's a matter of perspective.
 
Just to share my personal experience, it's all about perspective.

Majority of the people believe that film is even more expensive than digital but it all depends on how much you truly shoot. It's so common to get caught up buying the latest and greatest technology every 6-months to a year. At least that was my fear when I made that conversion to film because at some point within my journey of photography, I was getting caught up buying gear. But I looked over the past few years and took the time to see how many photoshoots I've done and determined the amount of shots I've taken (roughly 200-250). Towards the end of the day, it's not that much different than shooting digitally. Sure, I don't have the luxury of capturing and previewing images instantly, as well as shooting continuously; but overall, it depends on your medium, style and quality.

As you know, you can buy cheap film or digital equipment. All in all, the investment you put in, plus the time/effort creating the image will show.

Why is budgeting a concern? Are you shooting for fun/hobby or for business?
 
Sorry, but how the f@#$% can developing be expensive to the point that you need to compromise?! I mean, even E-6 single-shot is 2 EUR per roll. BW is not even close to 1 EUR.

I don't know that you can calculate it that easily. If you're going to place a monetary value on something like that, you probably ought to start by working out how much your camera(s) cost, darkroom kit, etc, etc. Then work out how many pictures you take in a period, add in the cost of printing those that you do print, and so on.

Or you can do what I do and just ignore the cost. That's what hobbies are for. 😉
 
I live in New York and I feel lucky because I can buy 5 liters of Ilford fixer for only $27.99 plus tax and was able to save mucho money by bulking up.

I shot Arista Premium to save money. I made Diafine work for me because I was mixing 20 liters of ID-11 a month and pouring it down the drain as a one shot (Diafine gets re-used without replenishment) was too wasteful.

I also used rebranded Acros that I bought as a close-out because it was short dated (again bulked up with 500 rolls). Acros in 120 I bought in bulk (hundreds of rolls) when prices were well under $4.00 a roll.

The situation last summer was that I was shooting on average 100 rolls a month (120 and 135) and at that rate costs multiply.

Now that I can no longer get Arista Premium for $2.89 a roll, and the rebranded Acros is also no longer available, I think I will be bulk loading Kodak 5222 for 135, and limit my 120 to only Acros, FP-4, and HP5 which are the least expensive films that I happen to like. BTW I'll be learning to use other developers. ADOX for one for the 5222 I will mix myself.

I feel if you can control expenses you will shoot more, and shooting more makes one a better photographer.

Cal
 
Lately I've been budgeting quite well. All my upfront costs of developing tanks and reels and such have been long paid for. I stock up on my favourite emulsions every 3-6 months Sometimes more. Usually costs around $200 depending on what I get. Usually I shoot Tri-X, Portra, and Velvia. I stock up on Plus-X twice a year from camera expos.

Developer costs $18, and fixer costs $12. I've been reusing my fixer and not using it one shot. Had one batch of fixer last me 2 weeks (ilford rapid fixer 1:9). Great value there.

I still shoot and I don't think it's effecting my ability to eat. I do have a C41 kit but haven't found a need to start mixing it. I don't shoot much color anymore. If I do I can swallow the $7 a roll every now and then.
 
The developer and fixer are not really an issue. Try HC110 dilution H, a one liter bottle will last you forever. You can reuse the fixer for some time, just check with a piece of exposed film ( a cut off from the film leader is always done when loading the tank) - you should fix twice as long as it takes to clear the film. If you get to 20min recommended time, go to get fresh fixer. If you use the stop bath the fixer will last longer.
As to film, I imagine bulk loading will save you money, but do not use bad film, because it will be difficult to produce a good image later. I would settle on 1 or 2 films at most, and look for offers and opportunities to stock up on the cheap. Use a deep freezer for storing.
Film photography nowadays is done for a reason - usually the main reason is the pleasure to use this material, and the end result, which looks different than digital. You should make sure this works, otherwise you might as well use your smartphone.
 
Of course you could simply not shoot just to shoot, or switch to shooting digital for your everyday carry and only pull out the film for when you know it's worth shooting.

I have 30 years of snapshots and utter crap in negative sleeves that are a nightmare to edit compared to how easy it is to delete the lousy digital shots I've made. And after thinking about it critically I came to the determination that 35mm was silly when a small digital generally can outperform it technically.

So I only shoot film in large format on a tripod and I'm careful about what I'm shooting so I don't waste nearly as much.

When you accumulate 8-10 linear feet of film in binders you start to feel a lot less romantic about it all ;-p
 
Thank for interesting thread. Something I really want to read.
I just going to try printing for first time.
Have all components, but need to finish the finishing of the basement to move enlarger to spare bathroom.

I asked one photog how is cheap Polypan F for printing and it works OK for him.
May be not extra ordinary. But nothing wrong with contrast for sure.
 
In one of the other Leica fora there are sometimes these support-me-in-my-purchase-decision threads where someone seeks to be persuaded that it is a good thing to give up the M6 and go digital with an MM because of the costs connected with film and developers.

I always tell them that for, say 6000EUR of the price of the MM (approx 6900EUR) they could get some 1400 rolls of Tri-X. Then use the rest for developers. Everyone photographs differently, but say you shoot 150 rolls a year that will last you close to a decade.

It is definitely a choice we make, just as the OP says.
 
Of course you could simply not shoot just to shoot, or switch to shooting digital for your everyday carry and only pull out the film for when you know it's worth shooting.

I have 30 years of snapshots and utter crap in negative sleeves that are a nightmare to edit compared to how easy it is to delete the lousy digital shots I've made. And after thinking about it critically I came to the determination that 35mm was silly when a small digital generally can outperform it technically.

So I only shoot film in large format on a tripod and I'm careful about what I'm shooting so I don't waste nearly as much.

When you accumulate 8-10 linear feet of film in binders you start to feel a lot less romantic about it all ;-p

That's some wisdom right there...
 
I always tell them that for, say 6000EUR of the price of the MM (approx 6900EUR) they could get some 1400 rolls of Tri-X. Then use the rest for developers. Everyone photographs differently, but say you shoot 150 rolls a year that will last you close to a decade.

I am not so sure the MM is mechanically fit for +/- 50,000 shots, the equivalent of 1400 rolls of Tri-X. One would hope that it is, but I've heard of many horror stories of M8's & M9's giving up the ghost after 20-30k shots.
 
Expired film.....

Expired film.....

I have had very good luck with buyin the emulsions I would like to shoot most from veteran, high 100% positive feedback (nothing less than 100%) on eBay.

Very good luck indeed. I've been shooting film with excellent results expired as much as a decade

The people on eBay with HIGH sales numbers and 100% positive feedback are routinely refrigerating their film and often say so in their listing.

I purchased and assortment of 152 envelopes of Quickload and Readyload 4X5 film... 152 envelopes for $125 shipped. I've shot some of it and had no problems at all. Some of the envelopes expired in the 90's

Futhermore, I buy every roll of 120 MF on eBay the same way. I use it constantly. Good results, but even if a roll were NOT to produce goof results, on average, I am only paying about $2 per roll..... color , velvia,B/W... most rolls.

However, in retrospect, I think you should all continue to shy away from expired film, now that I think about it????🙁

As far as chemicals are concerned, I'm getting wonderful results with Caffenol... Instant coffee, Vitamin C and Washing soda.
 
Art is much the same way. Cheap water color and student paper simply do not paint. you will give up not realizing the problem is material.

I always used Kodak B&W and their pro grade film. It shows. Ilford is top grade also.
In the 80`s I used Agfa because Kodak color neg was junk. Then came Ektar 100 and 25. 25 was unbelievable film. Way better than any else ever offered.
 
Back
Top Bottom