Film crew robbed at gunpoint in downtown Oakland

I don't think gaffer's tape or duck tape or packing tape or any other sort of tape is likely to be much of a theft deterrent. You know what would be:

0098HI-19145884.jpg



I mean who is going to bother stealing a $19.95 child's toy?
 
Contarama said:
The past few months I have been waiting to read about some unlucky black body camera owner who takes a few slugs from a civilian or cop who 'thought it was a gun' aimed at him. It is something worth thinking about I believe.
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C,

I had my Nikon F3P mistaken as a handgun by some passerby in Queens Plaza NYC. Understand that the camera was rigged with a MD-4 motordrive and an AH-4 Handstrap; and I was holding and carrying my camera kinda like a handgun in my right hand on my side. This man ran for cover.

Two things you need to know about handgun ballistics that is helpful: one is if you get shot once and are not hit in a vital organ you have about 2 hours to get to an emergency room before you bleed out. Under this senario you have an 80% chance of survival.

If you get shot twice and are not hit in a vital organ the percentage is inverse and you have an 80% chance of bleeding out and your survival rate is only 20%.

Thirdly a hand gun will penetrate a car door, and it takes a good amount of steel like an engine block or a brake rotor to stop a bullet even from a handgun. With a rifle it somewhat depends on distance to figure out the ballistics. Don't believe what you see on TV. Total BS.

BTW I had NYPD guns drawn on me twice: once in a case of mistaken identification, and once during an armed robbery where the perp with the gun was directly behind me. This was before there were SWAT teams, and I was lucky that the perp had his gun in the box full of cash and not in his hand, otherwise I would have been ventilated.

Also had my Gossen Luna Pro mistaken by a truck driver as a detective or undercover cops badgeholder. Evidently he had called 911 and had been waiting for a response from the NYPD.

All I can say is a lot of stuff happens. I try to keep my hands free whenever I can so I'm always ready to fight. Also I have no problem using a camera to defend myself if I have to or if I get any opportunity. Oh-well.

Cal
 
People in black BMW did the robbery? Wow, not what you'd expect. Then again, maybe they wanted another one.

As someone who was mugged at knife point in Buenos Aires recently while wearing very plain clothes and not being flashy (though I had the camera in a pocket)... it can happen and it is fast and like a blur. The two robbers decided the best course of action would be to smash my girlfriend's head on the ground (by grabbing her hair and yanking her to the pavement) quickly so I would care more about her than them. They were right. I looked at the guys with the knives and decided they were going to do what they want anyway. So, I just went to her and made sure she was ok. They wanted her bag (again a non name brand black bag...not fancy at all). They got it because she said "just take it" and they ran. They didn't get anything from me, but I had the iPhone and the camera they most likely were looking for.

People who think that this cannot happen, I would say, yes, it can. People who think they would be tough enough to kick ass, maybe you would be. However, I don't carry a knife or gun or am I a career criminal / professional fighter / self proclaimed bad-ass used to dealing with this type of behavior. I haven't fought anyone in 20 years. So in this case, the best course of action was to give them what they wanted and let them get out of there. If not, I would have been stabbed for sure.

It was fast and my memory of the incident was basically 5 images... 1) the first guy with a knife distracting us 2) my girlfriend being brought to the ground by a guy behind us (second guy) 3) the second guy with a knife 4) my girlfriend on the ground, giving up her bag with 4 hands on the bag (a good sign that we weren't going to be stabbed) and 5) them running away with the bag. The cops caught one guy... the one without her bag of course. Yeah, it happens... even when being careful and trying to blend in. Of course I'm a gringo so I don't blend in well in BA. We came to find out that it was during a change-over in police patrolling that block and the two guys knew that. Wrong place, WRONG time.
 
jsrockit said:
People in black BMW did the robbery? Wow, not what you'd expect. Then again, maybe they wanted another one.

As someone who was mugged at knife point in Buenos Aires recently while wearing very plain clothes and not being flashy (though I had the camera in a pocket)... it can happen and it is fast and like a blur. The two robbers decided the best course of action would be to smash my girlfriend's head on the ground (by grabbing her hair and yanking her to the pavement) quickly so I would care more about her than them. They were right. I looked at the guys with the knives and decided they were going to do what they want anyway. So, I just went to her and made sure she was ok. They wanted her bag (again a non name brand black bag...not fancy at all). They got it because she said "just take it" and they ran. They didn't get anything from me, but I had the iPhone and the camera they most likely were looking for.

People who think that this cannot happen, I would say, yes, it can. People who think they would be tough enough to kick ass, maybe you would be. However, I don't carry a knife or gun or am I a career criminal / professional fighter / self proclaimed bad-ass used to dealing with this type of behavior. I haven't fought anyone in 20 years. So in this case, the best course of action was to give them what they wanted and let them get out of there. If not, I would have been stabbed for sure.

It was fast and my memory of the incident was basically 5 images... 1) the first guy with a knife distracting us 2) my girlfriend being brought to the ground by a guy behind us (second guy) 3) the second guy with a knife 4) my girlfriend on the ground, giving up her bag with 4 hands on the bag (a good sign that we weren't going to be stabbed) and 5) them running away with the bag. The cops caught one guy... the one without her bag of course. Yeah, it happens... even when being careful and trying to blend in. Of course I'm a gringo so I don't blend in well in BA. We came to find out that it was during a change-over in police patrolling that block and the two guys knew that. Wrong place, WRONG time.
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John,

Sorry to hear that this happened. On the subway I saw this guy pacing back and forth. My radar was up. The subway was coming into the station, and I thought the guy was scoping out my fashion blogger gal for a snatch and grab.

I think I prevented him from making his move because I stood up and moved between him and the door.

This was on the 6 train. Not that I'm badass, but because I am old and know NYC from the seventies I really know how to flip the switch if I have to.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
John,

Sorry to hear that this happened. On the subway I saw this guy pacing back and forth. My radar was up. The subway was coming into the station, and I thought the guy was scoping out my fashion blogger gal for a snatch and grab.

I think I prevented him from making his move because I stood up and moved between him and the door.

This was on the 6 train. Not that I'm badass, but because I am old and know NYC from the seventies I really know how to flip the switch if I have to.

Cal
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Yeah, I've done the same on that train... but when you are out of your element in an area you don't know, there is a lot to keep track of that you are unfamiliar with. Believe me, dude just popped out of nowhere on a semi-busy street. This happened in public. Kids and families were around. They just didn't care. Two of the ugliest dudes you've ever seen... hahaha. Cal, you know from walking with me that I'm not a fool in these situations.
 
jsrockit said:
People in black BMW did the robbery? Wow, not what you'd expect. Then again, maybe they wanted another one.

As someone who was mugged at knife point in Buenos Aires recently while wearing very plain clothes and not being flashy (though I had the camera in a pocket)... it can happen and it is fast and like a blur. The two robbers decided the best course of action would be to smash my girlfriend's head on the ground (by grabbing her hair and yanking her to the pavement) quickly so I would care more about her than them. They were right. I looked at the guys with the knives and decided they were going to do what they want anyway. So, I just went to her and made sure she was ok. They wanted her bag (again a non name brand black bag...not fancy at all). They got it because she said "just take it" and they ran. They didn't get anything from me, but I had the iPhone and the camera they most likely were looking for.

People who think that this cannot happen, I would say, yes, it can. People who think they would be tough enough to kick ass, maybe you would be. However, I don't carry a knife or gun or am I a career criminal / professional fighter / self proclaimed bad-ass used to dealing with this type of behavior. I haven't fought anyone in 20 years. So in this case, the best course of action was to give them what they wanted and let them get out of there. If not, I would have been stabbed for sure.

It was fast and my memory of the incident was basically 5 images... 1) the first guy with a knife distracting us 2) my girlfriend being brought to the ground by a guy behind us (second guy) 3) the second guy with a knife 4) my girlfriend on the ground, giving up her bag with 4 hands on the bag (a good sign that we weren't going to be stabbed) and 5) them running away with the bag. The cops caught one guy... the one without her bag of course. Yeah, it happens... even when being careful and trying to blend in. Of course I'm a gringo so I don't blend in well in BA. We came to find out that it was during a change-over in police patrolling that block and the two guys knew that. Wrong place, WRONG time.
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Best course of action I would say. Sorry about you girlfriend. When you try not to be flashy and are smart enough to not get into a dangerous situation, and even so you get attacked, I think hell, nothing to do but handle what they want; life is too precious a thing to risk it over a camera or other stuff, even if it is expensive. One life (and life from loved ones) are even expensive.

Regards

Marcelo Paniagua
 
shootar401 said:
So you go on a shoot with equipment worth over $50,000 and do not carry a pistol for self defense? I don't know man, but really, Oakland and you expect NOT to get robbed?

I learned my lesson 6-7 years ago when some junkie was following me in the streets of NYC, I turned around and cracked his skull in with my F4s, better to be proactive than dead or stabbed.
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I dunno. If I were an out-of-state tourist to California, fat chance of being legally armed. Ever hear of the TSA? And does the out-of-state tourist understand the firearms laws in CA? What about individual city ordinances, they differ from city to city. Some don't permit open carry. And what's the chances an out-of-state tourist will be licensed for concealed carry?

I think this is rightwing gun lobby BS, that you can just defend yourself anywhere, anytime. And don't quote me those BS gun defense stories in the American Rifleman magazine and their ilk. They conveniently leave out all the other stories where people were prosecuted for pulling a gun. Will that be your defense strategy in court, that the NRA said I was okay? Good luck with that!

The reality is that most of us have to rely on an often inneffective, overworked and shorthanded police force for protection. So maybe we as photographers should vote with our wallets and leave places like east Oakland for the professionals.
 
Timmyjoe said:
That brings ugly to a whole new level.

Best,
-Tim
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I love it!

As far as taping up cameras, you're kidding yourself if you think it makes you less prone to being targeted. There pretty much are five brands of camera. All worth money. Confusing the fact as to whether your camera is a Nikon or a Canon, because you taped the name, will make zero difference. The thieves will take either.
Tape up your Leica so it looks like a Fuji Xpro? They'd take either.

Just by being out there taking pictures suggests you may have other valuables on you as apparently you have free time to be out there goofing around taking pictures! Possibly a tourist who will definitely have a wallet on him.

The only defense is situational awareness.
 
jsrockit said:
Yeah, I've done the same on that train... but when you are out of your element in an area you don't know, there is a lot to keep track of that you are unfamiliar with. Believe me, dude just popped out of nowhere on a semi-busy street. This happened in public. Kids and families were around. They just didn't care. Two of the ugliest dudes you've ever seen... hahaha. Cal, you know from walking with me that I'm not a fool in these situations.
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John; I left this post for Bill Pierce on the "Why Film" thread:

Bill; This is way OT, but just remembered it. I thought I would pass it along, since you're reading this thread.

Long ago, in a piece in Modern, you talked about packing your gear/bag in a dog food bag when riding the subway in NYC. I've used variations on that theme many times after reading of your scheme. I was telling a PJ friend about it years back and he said.. yeah, I know about that trick Pierce pulls. He said, he puts his bag in a cardboard box in the back seat of his car and covers it with dirty diapers. He got some old clean ones from his kid, and a trip to the art supply store completed the look. He said, "No one has ever touched that box", or broken into his car for that matter. .Looking through the car window, you see a box of soiled diapers.
 
There's been a lot of robberies in the Bay Area. I've done photography in hard hit areas in Oakland, SF. There's real disaparities between those that have and those that don't, more glaring than in the past. This is something to be aware of. There's a bunch of money that's flowed into Oakland recently and at the same time, thousands of people living on the street, more than I've ever seen. I am not saying homeless folks are committing crimes, the crime is that so many people have no home, no hope. And if anyone pulls a gun on me, they can have my camera. Life is worth more than that.
 
darya151 said:
There's been a lot of robberies in the Bay Area. I've done photography in hard hit areas in Oakland, SF. There's real disaparities between those that have and those that don't, more glaring than in the past. This is something to be aware of. There's a bunch of money that's flowed into Oakland recently and at the same time, thousands of people living on the street, more than I've ever seen. I am not saying homeless folks are committing crimes, the crime is that so many people have no home, no hope. And if anyone pulls a gun on me, they can have my camera. Life is worth more than that.
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Not a lot of homeless folks driving BMWs? The cameras aren't being sold locally. And you aren't going to get a $50k Sony serviced that's been ripped off.. serial numbers are recorded. Think about where this gear is going? Where is it being used? Seems a constant market for high end still and cine gear..
 
I promise not to jack you guys the next time you are down here. 🙂

Dante

MCTuomey said:
I've done some shooting in tough areas of my hometown, Detroit. Yeah, complacency and that odd obliviousness I experience when I'm in the shooting groove are dangerous states of mind. A friend of mine was robbed of his cash and gear a couple years ago on the east side (the thieves waited for him to return to his car and basically emptied it), very early morning. He won't shoot alone any longer in the city.

Ideally, I'd use the buddy system, but don't find myself practically with willing mates the times I'm out.
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