Gary Briggs
mamiyaDude
I'm looking for a film (B/W) that gives that creamy look like MF gives.
My mamiya 6 is so awesome as any MF shooter knows, the sky, the surface of a car, reflections off a lake....it is more than just the grain, 400 speed sometimes gives me this look.
In 35, I'm shooting a Bessa r2a, ZM 35/2.8, 50/2, and Nokton 40/1.4
No film I've tried can do what the mamiya does - is it just better lenses? bigger format?
Would appreciate any ideas on 35mm film that works best for these Zeiss lenses.
Gary
My mamiya 6 is so awesome as any MF shooter knows, the sky, the surface of a car, reflections off a lake....it is more than just the grain, 400 speed sometimes gives me this look.
In 35, I'm shooting a Bessa r2a, ZM 35/2.8, 50/2, and Nokton 40/1.4
No film I've tried can do what the mamiya does - is it just better lenses? bigger format?
Would appreciate any ideas on 35mm film that works best for these Zeiss lenses.
Gary
Any examples of what you are looking for?
Just off the top of my head I consider your wonderful M lens collection as being on the high contrast side, so you may have to consider that as contributing to what you are seeing.
Just off the top of my head I consider your wonderful M lens collection as being on the high contrast side, so you may have to consider that as contributing to what you are seeing.
I see that John is reading this thead. You may want to look into his advise.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100287
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100287
charjohncarter
Veteran
I like that look too. I use TMax100 for look. But I can also get it with TriX if I shoot at 250 and develop with minimal agitation. These are both 35mm:
TMax100
TriX,
TMax100
TriX,
Vics
Veteran
Ilford FP4+ was my choice for creamy. It's said to have a "Casablanca" look to it. I develop it in D-76.
Steinberg2010
Well-known
Neopan 400?
~S
~S
Hibbs
R.I.P. Charlie
I recall reading an article about Delta 100 and it was referred to being "creamy". Not used this emulsion...but perhaps someone who has can chime in?
~ Hibbs
~ Hibbs
cjm
Well-known
Fuji Acros 100@200 in Diafine is my recommendation.
canetsbe
Well-known
If you don't care about it being a traditional B/W, both Ilford and Kodak's chromogeneic C-41 BW films are super creamy IMO. They're technically color negative films so they have dynamic range out of this world... Rate them 1-2 stops over exposed and you've got creamy creamy creamy with a cherry on top.
Untitled by .. glory fades, on Flickr
Untitled by .. glory fades, on Flickr
Untitled by .. glory fades, on Flickr
Untitled by .. glory fades, on Flickr
Turtle
Veteran
The Mamiya 7 manages this due to 1) is a big chunk of film 2) exceptional resolution to the lenses.
To get a similar feel in 35mm, things to consider:
Fine grain solvent developers degrade edges and resolution and will not create the same look.
Modern Tmax/Delta films will not give the same look as traditional films on the larger 6x7 neg.
To get a simliar look on 35mm as a traditional 400 film on 6x7 Mamiya 7, you can try:
Foma 100 in Xtol 1+0/1+1. IMO this give far creamier tonality than Fp4+ in the same dev.
Pan F in most regular developers, downrated and pulled a little to tame contrast as required.
Delta 100 will give a more conventional look than Tmax or Acros, which both look more modern. D100 in 35mm qith Xtol 1+1 will easily compete with 6x7 400 films like TriX/HP5+ on raw grain and smoothness of tone. The look is different however.
All in all, while you can get close, you will need extremely high resolution lenses in 35mm, shot carefully. My ZM 21/50 and Leica lenses are up to the job generally, but the look never is quite the same. For the 'big hunk of film look' you tend to need a big hunk of film. For the same reason D3200 at 1200 shot in a Mamiya 7 looks different to any film I have shot in 35mm. I guess it is something to do with how resolution of lenses and film, grain etc, all interplay with enlargement ratios in prints.
To get a similar feel in 35mm, things to consider:
Fine grain solvent developers degrade edges and resolution and will not create the same look.
Modern Tmax/Delta films will not give the same look as traditional films on the larger 6x7 neg.
To get a simliar look on 35mm as a traditional 400 film on 6x7 Mamiya 7, you can try:
Foma 100 in Xtol 1+0/1+1. IMO this give far creamier tonality than Fp4+ in the same dev.
Pan F in most regular developers, downrated and pulled a little to tame contrast as required.
Delta 100 will give a more conventional look than Tmax or Acros, which both look more modern. D100 in 35mm qith Xtol 1+1 will easily compete with 6x7 400 films like TriX/HP5+ on raw grain and smoothness of tone. The look is different however.
All in all, while you can get close, you will need extremely high resolution lenses in 35mm, shot carefully. My ZM 21/50 and Leica lenses are up to the job generally, but the look never is quite the same. For the 'big hunk of film look' you tend to need a big hunk of film. For the same reason D3200 at 1200 shot in a Mamiya 7 looks different to any film I have shot in 35mm. I guess it is something to do with how resolution of lenses and film, grain etc, all interplay with enlargement ratios in prints.
Brian Legge
Veteran
Acros is the film I use for the look. Love it. The detail it captures is excellent and the tones just wonderful, particularly if you pull it a bit to reduce the contrast. I like it in Rodinal but haven't tried other pairings as I've been happy with the results as is.
I'd post examples but my 35mm shots are stopped down and my wider open shots are all medium format. Odd how that worked out.
I'd post examples but my 35mm shots are stopped down and my wider open shots are all medium format. Odd how that worked out.
canetsbe
Well-known
Acros is my #1 film for black and white in 120 format because it's SO CHEAP AND GOOD. For 35mm though I tend to stick with Neopan 400 or Tmax. But that doesn't really help you does it? Try acros, you'll like it.
BobYIL
Well-known
If "creamy" for you is to have long middle-tone gradations with least possible grain without crisp looking contrast, then shoot Acros @80 and develop it in D76(1:1) 10min. with 5sec. mild agitation/min. This might be somewhat close to what you wish however with lower contrast. The 35mm format is not known to duplicate the creamy look you get from MF format by any means and the MF format can not duplicate the creamy look you get from the large format. Physics..
tifat
Member
I've been using TriX and PMK Pyro for about 10 years and love it for medium and large format. Very "creamy". I've been shooting more 35 and this same (thread) question has been on my mind. I enjoyed the link to John's HC110/Rodinal method and find it interesting. Has anyone tried that blend of developers and used it for wet printing?
kiemchacsu
Well-known
I agree with you about Fomapan 100. It gave me creamy look better than FP4+ or APX100 that I tried
The below photos was taken using M6 | 35/2 v4 | Fomapan 100 souped in Tmax developer
1111_54_M3_BW400CN by kiemchacsu, on Flickr
The below photos was taken using M6 | 35/2 v4 | Fomapan 100 souped in Tmax developer
1111_54_M3_BW400CN by kiemchacsu, on Flickr
goffer
Well-known
Another vote for tmax 100
Anerdoo
Newbie
I used to shoot a Contax rtsII with Zeiss lenses. 25mm distagon and 50 planar and 85 sonnar. No longer a choice, but pyro developed Agfapan 25 gives/gave adequate results for enlargements to 20x24. You have to see it to believe it. Slow film with pyro was the closest I found to mimic the tonality of 120.
Anerdoo
Newbie
I used to shoot a Contax rtsII with Zeiss lenses. 25mm distagon and 50 planar and 85 sonnar. No longer a choice, but pyro developed Agfapan 25 gives/gave adequate results for enlargements to 20x24. You have to see it to believe it. Slow film with pyro was the closest I found to mimic the tonality of 120. Sorry I don't have a scanner to submit any photographic evidence.
