KM-25
Well-known
Don’t you just hate a tabloid-like title on a post? Yeah…me too, but not nearly as much as the reality I and other film fans are facing in using their favorite rolls of film abroad.
This Fall my wife and I have to be out of our house for 3-4 months for a remodel. Because my wife can not take time off but does work remote, she is simply going to spend the time at her mother’s place in Arizona. I on the other hand will have the ability to use this time as an excuse to travel and make new work. When in the U.S. I do this using an elaborate off road camper setup that allows me to be on the road as long as I want. And while I am planning some of that, I also want to do something really out there and go live in some cool North Atlantic islands for a couple months. All the travel and lodging logistics are well worked out and in budget but I am facing a big, BIG problem.
One can simply no longer travel with film in tow overseas and expect to avoid the nasty new CT scanning technology with carry on luggage. This is such a significant issue that Kodak, Ilford and even Fuji put out bulletins about it last year, flying with film abroad is nearly a total non-starter. I went through the highly exhaustive process of contacting the security entities of each airport and there is simply no way to be assured of a hand check anymore. So flying with film abroad is for all intents and purposes, dead.
I can have new film shipped to these islands via B&H or Freestyle but I am looking at two months here folks, that is at least 300 rolls of 120 for this kind of project, 500 would be preferred. I already have many times more than that in my freezer so I want to ship the film to this location ahead of me and not pay out the wazoo customs fees for film that is out of date and paid for long ago. And more importantly, I want to make sure it gets back safe and sound.
Basically for the trip of a lifetime that would yield an amazing body of work and is already costing in the 5 figures, I want assurances….and I am not getting them.
I have tried getting help from Ilford, Kodak, Fedex, Freestyle, B&H, DHL, ATA Carnet services, Logistics operations, Luggage forwarders, U.S. Customs, European Customs, etc. and keep getting no solid answers and quite a bit of run around. Ilford and Kodak basically gave me the virtual equivalent of a shoulder shrug and “Don’t know what to tell you”.
Right now I am looking at using Fedex to ship a max of 360 rolls of the film to this place in a flat rate 10KG box for about $320, it would take me to the 25KG box to ship all 500 at a rate of $475. Then I will have to figure out a way back using DHL…and I will want it insured. It would not surprise me if I paid over $1,000 to get my film out and back and I have no idea what kind of insurance that would give me due to the oddities of customs when it comes to customs value vs carriage value.
Why am I posting this out-loud-thinking one might ask?
It’s real simple, for the long term we film users who want to use it abroad are going to need some serious minutia cutting help in executing this using shipping. I have worked on this daily for 2-6 hours per day for the past two weeks and let me tell you, it is maddening and draining.
So I will conclude with a simple question, in regards to avoiding airport Xray, has anyone successfully shipped film out ahead to their destination and then when about to leave, shipped it back home without issue?
And if so, what did it take?
Thanks!
This Fall my wife and I have to be out of our house for 3-4 months for a remodel. Because my wife can not take time off but does work remote, she is simply going to spend the time at her mother’s place in Arizona. I on the other hand will have the ability to use this time as an excuse to travel and make new work. When in the U.S. I do this using an elaborate off road camper setup that allows me to be on the road as long as I want. And while I am planning some of that, I also want to do something really out there and go live in some cool North Atlantic islands for a couple months. All the travel and lodging logistics are well worked out and in budget but I am facing a big, BIG problem.
One can simply no longer travel with film in tow overseas and expect to avoid the nasty new CT scanning technology with carry on luggage. This is such a significant issue that Kodak, Ilford and even Fuji put out bulletins about it last year, flying with film abroad is nearly a total non-starter. I went through the highly exhaustive process of contacting the security entities of each airport and there is simply no way to be assured of a hand check anymore. So flying with film abroad is for all intents and purposes, dead.
I can have new film shipped to these islands via B&H or Freestyle but I am looking at two months here folks, that is at least 300 rolls of 120 for this kind of project, 500 would be preferred. I already have many times more than that in my freezer so I want to ship the film to this location ahead of me and not pay out the wazoo customs fees for film that is out of date and paid for long ago. And more importantly, I want to make sure it gets back safe and sound.
Basically for the trip of a lifetime that would yield an amazing body of work and is already costing in the 5 figures, I want assurances….and I am not getting them.
I have tried getting help from Ilford, Kodak, Fedex, Freestyle, B&H, DHL, ATA Carnet services, Logistics operations, Luggage forwarders, U.S. Customs, European Customs, etc. and keep getting no solid answers and quite a bit of run around. Ilford and Kodak basically gave me the virtual equivalent of a shoulder shrug and “Don’t know what to tell you”.
Right now I am looking at using Fedex to ship a max of 360 rolls of the film to this place in a flat rate 10KG box for about $320, it would take me to the 25KG box to ship all 500 at a rate of $475. Then I will have to figure out a way back using DHL…and I will want it insured. It would not surprise me if I paid over $1,000 to get my film out and back and I have no idea what kind of insurance that would give me due to the oddities of customs when it comes to customs value vs carriage value.
Why am I posting this out-loud-thinking one might ask?
It’s real simple, for the long term we film users who want to use it abroad are going to need some serious minutia cutting help in executing this using shipping. I have worked on this daily for 2-6 hours per day for the past two weeks and let me tell you, it is maddening and draining.
So I will conclude with a simple question, in regards to avoiding airport Xray, has anyone successfully shipped film out ahead to their destination and then when about to leave, shipped it back home without issue?
And if so, what did it take?
Thanks!
lukx
Well-known
It is a problem and I am also concerned. The first airports in Germany are starting to install these machines. In my experience the security officers are ignorant of the issue or they don't care, denying requests for hand checking. From what I've gathered, TSA officers are not as reluctant? Anyway it sucks big time.
But answer me this: were it not for the issue with the CT scanners – would you have brought 500 rolls of 120 in your hand luggage?! You take your film shooting serious, I applaud you for that.
But answer me this: were it not for the issue with the CT scanners – would you have brought 500 rolls of 120 in your hand luggage?! You take your film shooting serious, I applaud you for that.
KM-25
Well-known
Probably not, but I figured the overall problem was scalable in terms of discussing it. I take it serious because it is my career...
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
Can someone post actual pictures of the problems caused by these scanners?
valdas
Veteran
I have not seen many of those new machines in Europe so far. I am still travelling in Nordics and from there to Spain, Italy... And my film was safe. Probably this will come one day. Solution? In bigger cities one can find affordable film and do processing locally before flying back. Not ideal solution, but still an option...
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
I just read Kodak's announcement. It states about checked in luggage. There is little risk to the hand luggage intended to take in the cabin. These go through the low radiation scanners.
Solution: don't put camera/films in the big suitcase
__________________
Solution: don't put camera/films in the big suitcase
__________________
Freakscene
Obscure member
No, there are CT type scanners being used for hand luggage.
Good description in the Kodak Alaris Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofe...2207520000../3171302796221372/?type=3&theater
Machines are listed in Ilford’s faqs: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/faqs
The effect is general - it is not a focused beam like a CT5000 scanner used for checked luggage, these machines irradiate everything in the luggage item. They will wreck your film, it is not an if.
Marty
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
A year ago I decided to shoot 5x7 in the South West and had B&H ship my film to the hotel in Arizona. I know SFO had already installed the CRT scanners from a previous visit. After the road trip I sent 200 sheets (8 boxes of HP5+) to Hong Kong by FedEx for a whopping US$350 (might have been higher). I did not see any x-ray damage from the negatives. It would have been cheaper to sent it via the US Post but FedEx has its own jets and wouldn't use damaging X-rays if they scanned at all whereas the Postal Service need to use passenger cargo which requires scanning same as check-in luggage.
leicapixie
Well-known
I used to fly regularly every 2 years or less to be with family in South Africa.
Covid stopped that. The Pandemic is getting worse, the vaccine in many ways untested.. Some protection, but now way a cure.
Toronto, don't even ask about hand search of film. Onwards to Schipol Amsterdam. Polite, nice and no! Also extra search if you out for a few hours and see the city. Johannesburg Airport only a hassle on leaving. I once listened and packed a few exposed rolls in a "Safety Bag". My bag went under scrutiny 5~6 times! There was X-Ray damage. My daughters wedding images all safe having bought film in "Joey's" and processed at a rapid Kodak lab! Made duplicates, prints and albums with my Ex.
So for last few trips use digital. What a relief. Even thru Heathrow! The most security crazed airport. Pulled aside one year because my pro kit of Nikon-F's and lenses were slowing down "check". "Buy new cameras!" was advice..
Now we get to daughter.. Only phone pix allowed and "Nothing, zero, Dad of kids on FB! Capiche!". So danger. Extra!
Covid stopped that. The Pandemic is getting worse, the vaccine in many ways untested.. Some protection, but now way a cure.
Toronto, don't even ask about hand search of film. Onwards to Schipol Amsterdam. Polite, nice and no! Also extra search if you out for a few hours and see the city. Johannesburg Airport only a hassle on leaving. I once listened and packed a few exposed rolls in a "Safety Bag". My bag went under scrutiny 5~6 times! There was X-Ray damage. My daughters wedding images all safe having bought film in "Joey's" and processed at a rapid Kodak lab! Made duplicates, prints and albums with my Ex.
So for last few trips use digital. What a relief. Even thru Heathrow! The most security crazed airport. Pulled aside one year because my pro kit of Nikon-F's and lenses were slowing down "check". "Buy new cameras!" was advice..
Now we get to daughter.. Only phone pix allowed and "Nothing, zero, Dad of kids on FB! Capiche!". So danger. Extra!
KM-25
Well-known
Then you mis-read it:
https://petapixel.com/2020/01/27/kodak-warns-users-new-ct-scanners-at-airports-will-ruin-your-film/
The use of these scanners for carry on luggage is growing very fast, too fast to keep track of really so one has to just assume there will be at least one each direction you fly when going to places like the U.S. or Europe.
As for all the suggestions above that mention buying film and developing in place (not possible in my chosen area) let’s say I fly to Norway, Denmark or even Iceland to do a project for 6-8 weeks. I would want at least 300 rolls to accomplish that. If film is an average of U.S. $25 for the film and processing, that is $7,500.
Nope.
KM-25
Well-known
Did you insure it and what were your customs fees?
This is the only way I can see doing it so it is good to hear positive feedback. FedEx uses the same shipping methods with B&H and Freestyle that they would be in shipping my film to other countries so I am confident it would be safe. Now on the way back I would likely have to use DHL and I am not sure what they do in this regard.
I figure it will cost me around $1,000 US to ship it back and forth and that is without the assurance that comes with using a ATA Carnet service. If I use the latter in addition to shipping, I could be looking at close to $2,000 just to move my film back and forth.
Joao
Negativistic forever
If you have already considered this, just ignore it:
Freighter ships will hopefully resume transatlantic passenger transport soon. Private cabin, three meals a day, tax-free duty-free profit-free drinks, for 1000 - 1500 dollars one-way trip. Eight to twelve days.I think that they have no such strict regulations concerning luggage checks (this needs to be confirmed).
If time is not a problem, it seems a good way for crossing the North Atlantic. I know people who have done it, and their impression was very positive.
Just an idea...
Joao
Joao
Negativistic forever
And you will produce 36 times less CO2 than if you were travelling by plane.
Joao
Joao
Out to Lunch
Ventor
The issue may not be as black and white as you present it. When scanning the internet, I found this on the TSA website: "We recommend that you put undeveloped film and cameras containing undeveloped film in your carry-on bags or take the undeveloped film with you to the checkpoint and ask for a hand inspection".
I've sent queries on hand inspection of undeveloped film to Changi Airport and Pearson Airport. I'll revert whenever I receive their feedback.
Cheers, OtL ... PS. How could anyone stash 500 rolls of film in a piece of hand luggage?
I've sent queries on hand inspection of undeveloped film to Changi Airport and Pearson Airport. I'll revert whenever I receive their feedback.
Cheers, OtL ... PS. How could anyone stash 500 rolls of film in a piece of hand luggage?
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I didn’t insure it and HK has no import duty but Customs will randomly x-ray parcels for contraband. I don’t think I could have insure it above the value of unexposed film anyway. I was shocked by the courier charges and was expecting around $150. There won’t be a next time because international travel with film is over. It is just too expensive for me because it is just a hobby not my livelihood. If I do get the itch to travel with large format I will be sure to shoot as little as possible and make every sheet count. For small format I’ll shoot digital.
Andy Kibber
Well-known
Thanks for the heads up on this. For folks shooting a modest amount on a 1-2 week vacation, it seems shipping film for the trip to the destination and then shipping the exposed rolls back is the way to go.
KM-25's problem is one of scale. I like Joao's idea!
KM-25's problem is one of scale. I like Joao's idea!
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I do like Joao idea but ship the film back via sea vessel. It’ll save a bundle vs airfreight but then there’s the heat which may be as bad as X-ray.
lynnb
Veteran
So it seems the only realistic option for non-pro film users is to buy film at each destination country and process it before passing through any scanners... at great inconvenience, extra time and substantial cost. Avoid air travel wherever possible and carry a directory of processing labs near one's departure airport. And good luck getting the film processed in under 24hrs.
Best option might be XP2 and 1hr photo kiosks. Certainly not a cheap option.
Best option might be XP2 and 1hr photo kiosks. Certainly not a cheap option.
KM-25
Well-known
If film use were not so damn rare now, you could bet one of the big film makers would have come out with special “airport friendly” film in that the packaging would have some encoded tamper proof packaging that would go in a special basket and pass by a reader.
The best we can hope for is that someone figures out how to specialize in international logistics for amateur and pro film users to serve the need. Otherwise each year will see shrinking numbers of airports you can still put film trough the carry on X-ray.
I am not trying to cause excess alarm here, just giving a heads up to what is coming. I could easily take my small or medium format digital to this place (the Faroe Islands), but considering what I am supposed to be using to create my fine art, the thought of that is utterly soul crushing.
The best we can hope for is that someone figures out how to specialize in international logistics for amateur and pro film users to serve the need. Otherwise each year will see shrinking numbers of airports you can still put film trough the carry on X-ray.
I am not trying to cause excess alarm here, just giving a heads up to what is coming. I could easily take my small or medium format digital to this place (the Faroe Islands), but considering what I am supposed to be using to create my fine art, the thought of that is utterly soul crushing.
p.giannakis
Pan Giannakis
Copying from the Kodak website:
"Suggestions for Avoiding Fogged Film
X-ray equipment used to inspect carry-on baggage uses a very low level of x-radiation that will not cause noticeable damage to most films. However, baggage that is checked (loaded on the planes as cargo) often goes through equipment with higher energy X rays. Therefore, take these precautions when traveling with unprocessed film:"
"Suggestions for Avoiding Fogged Film
X-ray equipment used to inspect carry-on baggage uses a very low level of x-radiation that will not cause noticeable damage to most films. However, baggage that is checked (loaded on the planes as cargo) often goes through equipment with higher energy X rays. Therefore, take these precautions when traveling with unprocessed film:"