Film Loading for Cameras FED, Zorki

[DaveP]

cvblz4,
You brought up an interesting point! Any time card vs cutting the leader is argued , it always turns into which method is faster.I fell into the same trap, the methods are probably only seconds apart in reality, but the real advantage of the card method is the utility and convience. I carry a card in my billfold so its always with me, I have one in each camera bag and a couple on the work bench. In a pinch a business card will work just fine.Cutting the leader requires having something to cut with, scissors, knife ,whatever, ,,,,,,,something else to remember to take with you for the day. I know, cut the leaders before leaving home. Still, knowing the card method will save the day if you run through all your rolls or simply forget to bring something to cut with. Another tool at our disposal.

 

[payasam]

Dave, the back of the lower half of my IIIc's case has a pocket which cannot possibly hold anything other than a thin card. The previous owner of the camera, who had bought it new a year or two after WW 2 ended, told me that the pocket had held such a card. Finally, I remember coming across a reference to this card, which Leitz provided, and to its five-letter code. The long leader method is indeed the one which you will find in the operating instructions of all screw mount Leicas, but Leitz themselves did not consider it gospel.

 

[Valkir1987]

In the back of my Zorki case is a card, this card however is used to write down exposure times, calculations etc. I use it to write down the aperture and shutter time for some frames. The Leica case also has a card holder for a small exposure calculator or table.

I never use it to load film. For loading film I take a Leitz Film cutter and a sharp blade. My father owns a prewar leica, and some books about it. The film cutter was orginally used for cutting film after loading a cartridge with film from a spool. Film cartridges (Agfa, Leica and Ilford for example) had a long film leader for the Leica. Orwo films had a long film leader as well.

Greetings,

 

[Sylvaticus]

Haven't noticed anyone mwention one other point for cutting a longer leader. It's very important not to cut through or even slightly nick a sprocket hole at the inner end of the leader; a damaged sprocket hole will catch somehere in the camera and you can get bits of torn film floating around inside.

 

[payasam]

Valkir, in the 1940s and earlier, it would have been difficult indeed to find a writing instrument which would work on a very smooth surface: the ink would simply smudge or rub off. I know that it was close to impossible even in the 1960s. A card of that size, besides, could not hold much information. Whenever I needed to keep a record, whether of news photos or of exposure settings, I did that on a small note-pad. The card a reference to which I came across was specifically meant for use in loading film. I cannot see why else Leitz would have given it a five-letter code. You're quite right that many makes of film used to come with long leaders. For some while, both were made in parallel. I remember being asked, at shops, if I wanted long or short.

Sylvaticus, if you look around you will find that many people have written of the need to avoid sharp edges and loose corners anywhere on leaders. Given that film is both brittle and delicate, this should be self evident.

 

[Jocko]

Paysam, that is absolutely fascinating, and would seem to resolve this controversy completely. It is certainly true that a small, slick card would have been useless for notes in ink, and scarely better for pencil, in the period from which these cameras date. By a curious coincidence, an Indian friend of mine sold his Leica in 1945 to cover part of the cost of one of the very earliest ballpoint pens, in the disappointed hope that it would write on poor surfaces and in difficult conditions.

The Soviet card, by contrast, is a great lump of board, easily written on or erased.

Valkir - thank you for confirming that I'm not yet in my dotage - I was certain Orwo film had a long leader!

All the best, Ian

 

[Xmas]

Guys

Received advise is some of the FSU LTM cameras will self damage if you fire the shutter with the lens off, the rangefinder mechanism internal parts can interfere with the shutter logic internal parts when the lens focus cam tracking arm is fully extended after a lens is removed.

It would not be good to confirm this while loading film.

I cannot recall exactly when Kodak & Ilford went from long to short leaders, it was some time after 1970, that I noticed it, there were some strange marketing weasel words, to accompany the change, Like 'screw Leicias are old'.

I just developed my last cassette of FP2 last week but I did not keep the leader, if was a daylight refill and punched 'FP2', high fog level in Rodinal 1:100 but ok otherwise. It was not an intentional long term storage test and I dont recognise anything on the film either.

I can already feel the flames licking around my boots.... ooooh

Noel

 

[Xmas]

After thought

Card meant cardboard in past before it ment credit or debit, or delayed payment, or plastic, English is wonderful.

Noel

 

[payasam]

Dotage, Jocko, at your age? You make me feel like a fossil -- which is of course what my nieces call me. Up to at least the mid 1970s, by the way, many of the ball point pens made in India had oily ink which would turn paper translucent. I never tried them on plastic cards. If you send me the name of the Indian friend who sold a Leica, I shall see about withdrawing citizenship and possibly about sedition charges.

I don't know if the controversy is resolved completely. It's a matter of 4 letters versus 5. Take a look at the link below.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-22351.html

 

[Jocko]

After thought

Card meant cardboard in past before it ment credit or debit, or delayed payment, or plastic, English is wonderful.

Noel

When using a credit or debit card to load films, always remember to write your number on the leader, or the take up spool will reject the transaction.

Just helping. Ian

 

[Xmas]

Guys

Cells eventually recovered archival data.

I sold my IIf in '73 and never had to trim any commercial film for it, so the change over date for Kodak and Ilford going to current short leader must have been later.

Noel

 

[Jocko]

Oh Payasam! Calender years are nothing! The one proof of extreme antiquity is an enthusiasm for rangefinders!

Alas, dear "Bob" has gone to his reward, but is doubtless still lamenting his lost Leica in paradise and sneering at nasty modern rubbish like the other-worldly M 12s! Yet he "picked up" his Leica 1 in North Africa, circa 1942-3, so perhaps had less reason to complain than he might have done 🙂 . He was briefly in London in '45 and the first ballpoints cost £25.00 - he received £20.00 for his Leica from a dealer. I've made similar deals!

The irony is, of course, that had he kept the ballpoint it would now be worth a fortune. These really were from the very first batch ever put on sale.

It was lost in Assam in 1948, just in case anyone...

All the best!

Ian

 

[Jocko]

Guys

Cells eventually recovered archival data.

I sold my IIf in '73 and never had to trim any commercial film for it, so the change over date for Kodak and Ilford going to current short leader must have been later.

Noel

Thank you Noel! I've always wondered about that.

And about the speed of the original Kodak film (I think probably around 6 - 9 ISO) does anyone know!?

Well - it's worth an ask!

Cheers, Ian

 

[Valkir1987]

the ink would simply smudge or rub of

As Jocko mentions in one of his posts. You just use a pencil to write down these things. This card can indeed contain a lot of information. Just read some early books about the Leica. Film available with a short leader sounds strange to me, but Contax, Certo Dolina and other cine film cameras may have used it. The Leica Handbuch as a chapter about the loading of film into the cartridge and the camera, I shall read it tomorrow. But since a Leica is an precision instrument of high craftmanship, it should be loaded the right way as Leica discribed it with a Film leader. If Leica did supply a card for film leading, it would have been told in the books and the manuals.

Greetings

 

[OldNick]

Jocko - I used Kodachrome in the early 1950s and it was rated ASA 10, IIRC. It produced beautiful slides.

Jim N.

 

[Jocko]

Jocko - I used Kodachrome in the early 1950s and it was rated ASA 10, IIRC. It produced beautiful slides.

Jim N.

I well believe it Jim - those early colour positive films are simply breathtaking. Personally - and on a slightly different note - I still pine for the 1000 ASA kodacolour negative stock...

Actually, I started wondering about this thanks to a discussion with RFFer Lynn. We were talking about the 9 ASA black and White Soviet slide film offered by Alex-Photo. Just playing around trying to work out speed and light, it occurred to me that it must have a similar rating to the original Kodak negative roll-film in the 1880s, but I couldn't confirm this anywhere.

Valkir, I have to admit that I wondered if the card was meant for wipe-clean pencil notes, but Payasam is sure it had a 5-letter code and was intended specifically for loading. Obviously, one might argue that our friend had misremembered, but a quick scan of the major Leica sites reveals that the card method is in very general use. I am by no means an advocate of the card, but clearly it works and came from somewhere. I'm willing to bet that Payasam is spot on - it was Leitz!

But what does it matter, so long as they load 🙂

All the best, Ian

 

[JonP]

If the card was for loading, why is it present with cases for Kiev IIs and IIIs. I thought it was there to prevent the stud from damaging the back of the camera ala Argus C2 and C3 damage.

 

[GeorgesGiralt]

Hi guys !

I've seen the D_V_D_27 site !
It's wondefull the job this Guy has done to explain how to dismantle/lubricate an FSU rangefinder !
But as he seems to be Russian or Ukrainian, his English is somewhat poor.
As English is not my mother's tongue also, I've problems understanding him.
Will some _really_ nice people offer him a hand to put all his stuff in pure plain English ?
It would be a real help for the communitty !
Thanks in advance for this !

 

[comp_wiz101]

Here's what I do, out of simplicity....
I always have a "multi tool" with a pair of scissors, so I simply "eyeball" approx 10.5 cm and I lengthen the leader.
I usually do this beforehand if I am planning to shoot more than one roll, so that way it is ready and quick to load into my Zorki C. It only takes a short moment, and I don't have to worry about losing a card.

 

[payasam]

Ian, I shall always think I was right about the other things, but I'm certain I was wrong about the 5-letter code: if you follow the link I gave, you'll see that it speaks of a 4-letter code. Maybe the person who wrote of it had forgotten, maybe it was a typo, maybe Leitz made a single exception. I have not come across any other reference to it.