Film or digital

[RJBender]

Cut the personal attack BS, Andy! Backalley (Joe) is going to close this thread before Byuphoto tells us if he used film or digital. 😕

Your argument against digital isn't very convincing. There's no need to get defensive about it or hurl insults at Bertram and Socke.

R.J.

 

[Andy K]

Cut the personal attack BS, Andy! Backalley (Joe) is going to close this thread before Byuphoto tells us if he used film or digital. 😕

Your argument against digital isn't very convincing. There's no need to get defensive about it or hurl insults at Bertram or Socke.

R.J.

I see. It's ok for various people to attack me with smartarse facetious comments, but if I do it it's a problem?
I haven't argued against digital. I've argued for analogue.

 

[Bertram2]

Hey Bertram, are you and Socke married or what? It seems if Socke said the moon was made of cheese you would agree and say you'd tasted it. 🙄 Every time Socke posts, shortly after there you are like a good little puppy, 'Yes Socke, yes Socke, yes Socke.'

O.K., O.K enuff , enuff ! You opened a door for a moment and we all could watch the mess in that (dark)room behind it 😀 😀 That's IT for me, over and out !
It's clear now why you don't worry about darkroom pollution, the damnage is done already.

 

[fgianni]

It seems if Socke said the moon was made of cheese you would agree

How odd, you almost seem to think that it is not made of cheese. 😀

 

[RJBender]

I see. It's ok for various people to attack me with smartarse facetious comments, but if I do it it's a problem?
I haven't argued against digital. I've argued for analogue.

It's not ok so shake hands and forget about it.

R.J.

 

[Andy K]

'The chemicals have got to their brain...'
'Luddite'
'Elitist'
'Snobbish'

Heard them all before, mostly on photo.net. 🙄

Here's a question. If people are truly secure and happy with the digital process, why does one small comment (about immersing an inkjet print and a silver print in water) generate eight whole pages of discussion?

 

[Socke]

Andy, it's ok with me that you choose traditional B/W from the beginning to the end, I never argued that.
The only argument I have is the percieved longevity of silver based prints over other technologies not if you use them.

 

[Andy K]

Andy, it's ok with me that you choose traditional B/W from the beginning to the end, I never argued that.
The only argument I have is the percieved longevity of silver based prints over other technologies not if you use them.

And my point is that those 'other technologies' have not been proved. Yes, there have been lab tests, but let's face it, CD Roms were supposed to last for 'hundreds of years'. I'm willing to bet everyone here has a CD rom somewhere that hat deteriorated. The same goes for commercial quality music CDs. I have a couple that will no longer play even though they were stored carefully.
I will not put my faith in an unproven and unreliable technology.

 

[fgianni]

The only argument I have is the percieved longevity of silver based prints over other technologies not if you use them.

Same for me, I often shoot film, and I also develop my own B&W negatives, so my answer to the question "Film or Digital" is "Both"
But when it comes to archiving I have more faith in the digital technology, mainly for the redundancy it can provide, and the ability of doing copies with absolutely no loss in quality.

 

[Socke]

Andy, I don't argue your experience

 

[Andy K]

Hey🙂

Andy, if you want to dunk your prints in a godlfishbowl to view them good luck. The ink from the inkjet print will probably run, and the silver print will get lighter, since most silver prints "dry in". So neither of them will look like how they are supposed to. Of course, if you leave the silver print in there long enough, the emulsion will just float off anyway, so not a great way to prove the archival quality. 😉

ManGo

I have washed prints and they do not change at all. Drying in is not really a factor if you are using RC paper.

 

[Bertram2]

Andy, I don't argue your experience

but you do argue hopefully that I we are married and that we don't have any marriage plans 😀 😀

As always
Your puppy :bang:

 

[Doug]

Feel free to carry on your personal attacks. I'm used to that attitude from digital users and Photochoppers. 🙄

Just twigging you in a friendly way, Andy, since you've been so serious about it.

Back decades ago, reversal film was the primary color medium, it seemed. All professionals (except wedding photogs) shot slides. So of course serious amateurs did too, and color neg films were for family snapshots. National Geographic and other such magazines wanted submissions on slides. Photo competitions specified slides for entries. Same for local photo clubs.

So I shot slides too, but became disillusioned. I didn't like the look, nor the balancing on the edge of disaster exposure-wise. So for my color I shot negatives. Have to admit there's something beneficial about Kodachromes, as the Ektachromes and Kodacolors are subject to fading in time. A good scan of the fresh negs would be more archival if they can be kept safe.

But to my eyes digital cameras are too much like shooting slides, so I'm sticking with color negatives until that changes, or until other events drag me kicking and screaming away from analog processes. 😀

 

[Socke]

but you do argue hopefully that I we are married and that we don't have any marriage plans 😀 😀

As always
Your puppy :bang:

Not before you admit that HP-UX on PA-RISC processors is more secure and faster than Solaris on SPARC.

 

[Kin Lau]

My apologies, I didn't realise Mitchell and Kenyon was so difficult to type into the search bar.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/nfa/mitchell_and_kenyon/index.php

http://www.shef.ac.uk/nfa/mitchell_and_kenyon/showmen.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4172449.stm

And the point is?

The bfi National Film and Television Archive embarked on an ambitious three year preservation and restoration programme for the entire collection. Custom built machinery had to be constructed to deal with problems of variable shrinkage, discoloration and non-standard frame dimension in order to make new safety preservation material and viewing copies.

Take them out of those _sealed_barrels_, and see the amount of work it takes to restore them, and make copies that are safe for use. Makes fgianni's little project look like a walk in the park.

BTW, has anyone seen 100 year old RC prints?

 

[Andy K]

And the point is?

They are all nitrate film.

Take them out of those _sealed_barrels_, and see the amount of work it takes to restore them, and make copies that are safe for use. Makes fgianni's little project look like a walk in the park.

They have already done it and made the documentaries.

 

[Socke]

BTW, has anyone seen 100 year old RC prints?

I learn something new every day, I was under the impression that only fibre based Baryt paper, properly washed, toned and dried, makes for archival prints.
I remember my fathers concernes that the reisin coating becomes brittle realy quickly if the print is framed behind glass.

Ilford claims "more than adequate" lifetime, whatever that is 🙂

So I google around and found out that the problem with the fast deterioration of the reisin was solved in the late 70's
Toning is still recomended.

Archival Aspects of Resin-Coated Paper

Whereas the Bureau of Archives and Record Management still doesn't think highly of the archival qualities of RC paper
RC papers are unstable when exposed to UV light

Interesting subject.

 

[Kin Lau]

They are all nitrate film.

They have already done it and made the documentaries.

And it's news worthy because it survived this long, an exception and not the rule, not surprising. One of the things they do, is make a backup.

 

[Bertram2]

Not before you admit that HP-UX on PA-RISC processors is more secure and faster than Solaris on SPARC.

I would admit almost evreything to get rid of that ugly rumor that I am a puppy and married to you. 😀
bertram
Gottogott, welche Niedertracht !!! 😱

 

[Kin Lau]

I learn something new every day, I was under the impression that only fibre based Baryt paper, properly washed, toned and dried, makes for archival prints.
I remember my fathers concernes that the reisin coating becomes brittle realy quickly if the print is framed behind glass.

Ilford claims "more than adequate" lifetime, whatever that is 🙂

So I google around and found out that the problem with the fast deterioration of the reisin was solved in the late 70's
Toning is still recomended.

Archival Aspects of Resin-Coated Paper

That's one of the first sites I found too. The problem is, I haven't found a second authoritative site yet to back up that claim. I'd love to have my RC prints "suddenly archival", but I haven't gone thru selenium toning for anything yet. Going FB is just a whole other level when it comes to finishing prints. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to get there. I certainly don't have the room for it.

Whereas the Bureau of Archives and Record Management still doesn't think highly of the archival qualities of RC paper
RC papers are unstable when exposed to UV light

Interesting subject.

They have more at stake. I've followed some of the archival threads on pnet, and it looks like a science on to itself with many factors involved. My wife has an FB print of her mother at least 60 yrs old, and it's beautiful. I have RC prints from only 30 years ago or less, and while some have aged okay, they "feel" funny. Most have been kept in the dark too.