EpicRavenLord
Member
I want to purchase a film rangefinder and one lens. originally I wanted to join the Leica club but…. I don't think I can swing that at this time. There is just too many factors to consider and I don't want to risk getting a lemon or have one serviced. Here are the 3 options that I am looking at any opinions will be considered and appreciated.
1. Brand New Bessa R3A/M w/40 f/1.4 = $1,100 ish USD
2. Konica Hexar RF w/50 f/2.0 USED in great shape = $1200-$1300 USD
3. Zeiss Ikon ZM Black Plus one new lens (Zeiss 35,50 undecided) =$2000
(in price order)
The camera will be used for my own personal joy of photography. Family photos, walking the street and subjects of that matter. Its hard to make a commitment when you can't actually pick up the camera and hold it in your hands… and there are zero stores in the area that have anything rangefinder and if they do its the new MP or an M7 etc….
Thanks
1. Brand New Bessa R3A/M w/40 f/1.4 = $1,100 ish USD
2. Konica Hexar RF w/50 f/2.0 USED in great shape = $1200-$1300 USD
3. Zeiss Ikon ZM Black Plus one new lens (Zeiss 35,50 undecided) =$2000
(in price order)
The camera will be used for my own personal joy of photography. Family photos, walking the street and subjects of that matter. Its hard to make a commitment when you can't actually pick up the camera and hold it in your hands… and there are zero stores in the area that have anything rangefinder and if they do its the new MP or an M7 etc….
Thanks
Scrambler
Well-known
I don't think there are any bad options there. I have the HexarRF and use with a variety of lenses but mostly a Canon 50/1.4. The Hexar is more dependent on electronics than the other options, older and therefore more difficult to get work done of anything fails. However it offers features the others don't. The ZI has a great reputation. The Bessa is no slouch particularly with the 40/1.4 (provided you don't wear glasses).
My recommendation would be to check the lens signatures on the gallery and online photo sites and choose based on the look you like. Any of the bodies will be good enough.
yossarian123
Sam I Am
For the prices you've quoted, Tamarkin Camera has an M2 and a 50mm DR summicron. It's actually less than your quoted prices. And with his customer service you don't have to worry about getting a lemon. All of the stuff he sells is checked before it's sold.
The other combos are nice and give you a more modern experience but it sounds like you're already considering a Leica - it's better to just scratch that itch now.
The other combos are nice and give you a more modern experience but it sounds like you're already considering a Leica - it's better to just scratch that itch now.
Pioneer
Veteran
I am partial to the Zeiss Ikon, but they are all good options.
You may also want to consider a used M6. Although I personally prefer the Zeiss Ikon you will always wonder about the Leica. A decent M6 or M6 TTL with an older Summicron is a terrific starting point.
Like Mike Johnston says, you can always sell it later and it is unlikely you will lose much, if any, unless you abuse it.
You may also want to consider a used M6. Although I personally prefer the Zeiss Ikon you will always wonder about the Leica. A decent M6 or M6 TTL with an older Summicron is a terrific starting point.
Like Mike Johnston says, you can always sell it later and it is unlikely you will lose much, if any, unless you abuse it.
Johann Espiritu
Lawyer / Ninja
Agree with what everyone has said, especially with Pioneer's recommendation on a used M6. You don't need to buy a mint condition one, just one that works well. Don't worry about cosmetics, these thing were built to last! You can probably grab one for less than US$1,000.
Also, if you just want one lens, you can also consider a fixed-lens RF. A Canon G-III QL17 will cost you less than $100!
Also, if you just want one lens, you can also consider a fixed-lens RF. A Canon G-III QL17 will cost you less than $100!
LazyHammock
Well-known
How about a Contax IIa? You can find one with a 50mm Sonnar for half the price of anything you've listed. You can have the rangefinder experience and see how you like it.
Ranchu
Veteran
Vincent.G
Well-known
I agree with suggestions to try out the M2 from a reputable seller with good return policy.
Sharing my candid experience, the smooth working cameras usually look worse cosmetically than those problematic ones. I assume mint looking ones may be because a) they have problems so are not used b) they are not often used and lubricants inside gum up over time c) they were meant to be shelf queens and not to be used.
Nonetheless a new R3M with a Nokton 40/1.4 is a great combo!
Sharing my candid experience, the smooth working cameras usually look worse cosmetically than those problematic ones. I assume mint looking ones may be because a) they have problems so are not used b) they are not often used and lubricants inside gum up over time c) they were meant to be shelf queens and not to be used.
Nonetheless a new R3M with a Nokton 40/1.4 is a great combo!
mooge
Well-known
Contax IIa... I wouldn't go there - dim and squinty finder, fidgety ergonomics, limited / uncommon lens options... it's a cool camera and all but I wouldn't buy one as a daily camera; and why sink money into camera you won't use often? just my opinion though... others like the old Contaxes and that's totally cool - I'd get annoyed with the finder pretty quick (and did with my Kiev).
Out of your choices... I'd mix and match and get a Zeiss Ikon + Nokton 35 1.4. Ikon for the killer finder; Nokton 35 because it's compact and awesome.
I'd certainly take an Ikon over a Bessa (they're pretty good though) or a Hexar RF (too automated?), but the choice would be fuzzier if you throw Leica in the mix.
(I went with a beat-up M2 + 35 Nokton and 12mm Heliar, for what it's worth... which was about $1400 total? my M2 is totally knackered though)
Out of your choices... I'd mix and match and get a Zeiss Ikon + Nokton 35 1.4. Ikon for the killer finder; Nokton 35 because it's compact and awesome.
I'd certainly take an Ikon over a Bessa (they're pretty good though) or a Hexar RF (too automated?), but the choice would be fuzzier if you throw Leica in the mix.
(I went with a beat-up M2 + 35 Nokton and 12mm Heliar, for what it's worth... which was about $1400 total? my M2 is totally knackered though)
Godfrey
somewhat colored
If you want a Leica, save and buy a Leica. If you want something else, go for that.
My M4-2 body cost me $800 including having the viewfinder CLAed. My CL body in superb shape cost me $320. There's certainly enough room in your budget with either of those for a good lens.
G
My M4-2 body cost me $800 including having the viewfinder CLAed. My CL body in superb shape cost me $320. There's certainly enough room in your budget with either of those for a good lens.
G
thegman
Veteran
There is a lot of talk about people getting Leicas and immediately sending off for a CLA, that's not been my experience. If you want one, you can get one, but do you want a built in light meter? If you do, then oldest you can go is M5, and most people barely consider that a proper Leica, so you're looking at an M6.
Scrambler
Well-known
As this moves along - 2 things.
1) All the bodies proposed by the OP are meter-in-body and AE capable.
2) The $1100 Leica-plus-lens may exist, but it does not do AE, or even metering, and isn't F1.4 or 2 (or if it is F2, the lens is 50+ years old and the camera wonky).
A $1000 Leica and $1000 lens may be more achievable (Or $1200 Leica and $800 lens) but still won't do AE ... if that matters.
1) All the bodies proposed by the OP are meter-in-body and AE capable.
2) The $1100 Leica-plus-lens may exist, but it does not do AE, or even metering, and isn't F1.4 or 2 (or if it is F2, the lens is 50+ years old and the camera wonky).
A $1000 Leica and $1000 lens may be more achievable (Or $1200 Leica and $800 lens) but still won't do AE ... if that matters.
Takkun
Ian M.
Might be a case of 'do as I say, not as I do,' but I'd say pick one off your list and hold off on a Leica. Like Scrambler said, you'd be hard-pressed to find an affordable METERED body. I keep hearing about this mythical sub-$1000 M6, but I've never seen anything under 1200 that didn't need servicing.
Plus, if you're like me and had never touched or even seen a Leica closer than a few feet, you'll be happy with any of the above choices. It was only when I met an RFFer in person and played with their M6 that I decided I needed one…
Anyway. If you can, I'd try out any of the bodies you're considering, since they're all fairly different, from what I understand. I only personally have used the R3A, which is a light and solid camera, but the Ikon has quite a few nice details.
What lenses are you considering? I can also vouch for the Canon 50 1.8 and 1.4 for affordable options.
Plus, if you're like me and had never touched or even seen a Leica closer than a few feet, you'll be happy with any of the above choices. It was only when I met an RFFer in person and played with their M6 that I decided I needed one…
Anyway. If you can, I'd try out any of the bodies you're considering, since they're all fairly different, from what I understand. I only personally have used the R3A, which is a light and solid camera, but the Ikon has quite a few nice details.
What lenses are you considering? I can also vouch for the Canon 50 1.8 and 1.4 for affordable options.
Pioneer
Veteran
I hate to put to fine a point on this but the OP indicated he would consider spending $2000 for a Zeiss Ikon and lens. I suspect it is possible to find an M6 in good condition with a CV, ZM or Leica lens to go with it for $2000.
But it is certainly possible I could be wrong...
And of course, the OP could hold off for a bit longer, save some additional money, and buy the Leica. Believe me, I am not a Leica fan. I personally think there are better things photographically to spend your money on. The Zeiss Ikon is a better option in my opinion. But opinions aside, there are a lot of people who have spent good money on Bessas, Konicas, Zeiss Ikons, etc, only to end up buying a Leica in the end.
My point is, buy the Leica first. If it turns out that it isn't your cup of tea then you will likely be able to resell it for very close to what you paid in the first place. You spend a bit more up front, but get most of it back in the end. Though I like some of the other options, resale is not one of their strong points.
But it is certainly possible I could be wrong...
And of course, the OP could hold off for a bit longer, save some additional money, and buy the Leica. Believe me, I am not a Leica fan. I personally think there are better things photographically to spend your money on. The Zeiss Ikon is a better option in my opinion. But opinions aside, there are a lot of people who have spent good money on Bessas, Konicas, Zeiss Ikons, etc, only to end up buying a Leica in the end.
My point is, buy the Leica first. If it turns out that it isn't your cup of tea then you will likely be able to resell it for very close to what you paid in the first place. You spend a bit more up front, but get most of it back in the end. Though I like some of the other options, resale is not one of their strong points.
kanzlr
Hexaneur
If you can get a nicely workling Hexar RF, go for it. It is my all time favourite camera, and I had a lot 
While I like my M4, the Hexar sits nicer in my hand, has AE with AE lock, a really nice viewfinder with 28mm lines, is motorized, has DX coding and auto loading, has a superbly textured leatherette cover and just looks and feels the part. It also offers a hotshoe for flash use, if you need that. On top of that, max shutter speed is 1/4000, much faster than most Ms.
Konicas lenses are outstanding, and while I currently use a 50mm Summicron v3, the 50mm M-Hexanon is an even better lens.
If AE is not that important, the M5 is a wonderful camera too, with a great finder, great meter and superb ergonomics. Don't believe those who say it is no proper Leica, it is, of course. Maybe the best, if you like her handling.
The Canon 50/1.8 suggestion makes sense if you are on a budget.
While I like my M4, the Hexar sits nicer in my hand, has AE with AE lock, a really nice viewfinder with 28mm lines, is motorized, has DX coding and auto loading, has a superbly textured leatherette cover and just looks and feels the part. It also offers a hotshoe for flash use, if you need that. On top of that, max shutter speed is 1/4000, much faster than most Ms.
Konicas lenses are outstanding, and while I currently use a 50mm Summicron v3, the 50mm M-Hexanon is an even better lens.
If AE is not that important, the M5 is a wonderful camera too, with a great finder, great meter and superb ergonomics. Don't believe those who say it is no proper Leica, it is, of course. Maybe the best, if you like her handling.
The Canon 50/1.8 suggestion makes sense if you are on a budget.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I might as well add my 2d worth.
If your first thoughts were for/about a Leica then go after one as the others will merely delay the Leica's purchase.
If you can raise USD 2,000 then there ought to be a Leica available. And as one has been pointed out to you, above in post no. 3, you should go after it - but that's only my version of what you'd like.
Thousands of people own and use Leica M5's, BTW, and Leica CL's.
Regards, David
PS (Edit) My experience of a Contax II makes me advise against them, breaking tapes happen and repairs can be difficult and expensive even by professionals and take ages. My Kiev is nice and, of course, Oleg offers a repair service for them.
I might as well add my 2d worth.
If your first thoughts were for/about a Leica then go after one as the others will merely delay the Leica's purchase.
If you can raise USD 2,000 then there ought to be a Leica available. And as one has been pointed out to you, above in post no. 3, you should go after it - but that's only my version of what you'd like.
Thousands of people own and use Leica M5's, BTW, and Leica CL's.
Regards, David
PS (Edit) My experience of a Contax II makes me advise against them, breaking tapes happen and repairs can be difficult and expensive even by professionals and take ages. My Kiev is nice and, of course, Oleg offers a repair service for them.
Addy101
Well-known
I may be highly under qualified to reply to this question, but EpicRavenLord has a 28mm M-mount lens, so, it makes sense to advise a 28mm capable M-Mount camera. If I'm correct, that rules out most older Leica cameras like the M2 or M3. A M6 (original) could be, but it might be difficult to find a fully functional one with a lens for a decent price.
On the 35/50 question. Your 28mm on your RD-1 will be comparable to a 42mm on film, so, I understand your question. However, you can use the 28mm on film and the difference between 28mm and 35mm isn't that big. I would go 50mm and get a nice portret lens on your RD-1. Just IMHO of course.
On the 35/50 question. Your 28mm on your RD-1 will be comparable to a 42mm on film, so, I understand your question. However, you can use the 28mm on film and the difference between 28mm and 35mm isn't that big. I would go 50mm and get a nice portret lens on your RD-1. Just IMHO of course.
mfogiel
Veteran
From what I see, you want AE, which in my opinion is a good decision. Eventually you will want to try an M7, so I suggest you start looking around for one at a good price, and buy a cheaper lens for it to start with - like the 35/2.5 Skopar or any of the many 50mm rf lenses, most of which are good enough to begin with.
Out of the cameras mentioned, ZI trumps them all, but is sort of going out of production, so if you prefer to stick to something current, the R3A would be the only choice. However, if you go for it, try the framelines before deciding for the lens, as the 40mm frames are very tight, and the 50mm frames are tight if you wear glasses (with glasses, 40mm frames are not visible).
Out of the cameras mentioned, ZI trumps them all, but is sort of going out of production, so if you prefer to stick to something current, the R3A would be the only choice. However, if you go for it, try the framelines before deciding for the lens, as the 40mm frames are very tight, and the 50mm frames are tight if you wear glasses (with glasses, 40mm frames are not visible).
bojanfurst
Well-known
Like Pioneer, I am partial to Zeiss Ikon. I have it and use it pretty much as the OP intends to use it. Mine has a 35mm C-Biogon on it. To be honest, I wanted a Leica. However, I went to a store and held an M6 and a Zeiss in my hands and Zeiss felt better (it also has waaay better viewfinder), so no regrets whatsoever here. I dropped it recently and caused quite a bit of damage. Sent it off to Zeiss and they sent it back fixed, cleaned and with new leathering as well for which they did not charge me Great communications throughout the process, too.
Great communications throughout the process, too.leicapixie
Well-known
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142788
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142788
There is only Leica.
All the others are close, similar and may even be better, in some ways.
They are not Leica.
You have to use one, hold it. shoot it.
There are a lot of M6 out there, all have metering.
Buying other makes only delays the purchase of the One!
Save more, get the right thing.
Use it at least a year, one lens,one film!
Sounds familiar.
After one year, you can KNOW if a Leica is for you.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142788
There is only Leica.
All the others are close, similar and may even be better, in some ways.
They are not Leica.
You have to use one, hold it. shoot it.
There are a lot of M6 out there, all have metering.
Buying other makes only delays the purchase of the One!
Save more, get the right thing.
Use it at least a year, one lens,one film!
Sounds familiar.
After one year, you can KNOW if a Leica is for you.