Film spacing problem of my Kiev

[Mark Wood]

Rather amusingly, I bought a Contax III from eBay a few years ago and the frame spacing problem was actually worse than it was in my first my 1975 Kiev 4a!! (That one was also fixed in the same way as we've been discussing.)

 

[M. Valdemar]

My brain is not wired for taking apart something with a gazillion screws, shims, gears, wires. I'm not evolved in that direction.

And in a New York City apartment that is at present a madhouse with a wife and baby moving and pushing everything, anything I put down for more than 30 seconds immediately disappears forever.

I've lost my keys, eyeglasses, money, batteries, cameras, several lenses.....everything goes down into the pit of no return.....

Camera disassembly is not my forte.

 

[ruben]

...........Camera disassembly is not my forte.

For a guy living in NY, there is nothing wrong with it. On the contrary in NYC, it would be rather an absurd waist of time to start learning Kiev disassembly, unless as a special hobby.

Here in Israel, even the Russian immigrants fixing cameras have no idea about Russian cameras :bang:
and actually the ignorance of one of them, with a big "Zenith" sign on his door, in re-assembling a J-9 was the last drop of anger sending me to the path of self-suffiency. Simply no other way.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[M. Valdemar]

PLENTY of Russians here happy to fix FSU cameras and good at it.

 

[ruben]

PLENTY of Russians here happy to fix FSU cameras and good at it.

As I told you, NYC is NYC. We here are one of the small spots within the big Sahara desert. Nothing to compare.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[acheyj]

More very interesting info. Amazed at the many complex solutions, I was led to believe it was the torque of the takeup spool. On mine I applied a flat bladed screw driver to the screw inside the takeup fork and reduced the tension. I felt the tension by finger then gradually tested and undid the tension a small amount at a time. I believe there is a torque meter made by Contax for this job, my method seems to be holding ok.
To test I removed the lens, set to B time and locked shutter open. With a blank film I marked each frame edge with a pencil as a reference as I advanced the film. Then proceeded to adjust. Guess I was lucky to have sveral old out of date film spools from my bulk film days.

Thanks to all again, without this group I could not enjoy the love of this remarkable camera.

ron

 

[kl122002]

It is a very lucky day. My room-mate was not here and I finished CLA for my Kiev. Although I did not completely follow KSS 's instruction, everything comes normal again.
However, the speed 1/2 does not have response sometimes. It need a strong hit from the top so as to work. I think need to CLA again in the Esther holiday.

 

[januaryman]

Well, I figured it was time for an update. Background: I ordered a nice black Kiev 4AM from an owner in the US, it came with a Helios 103. The frames were all perfectly spaced over the entire roll, but camera had a few problems. More than a few frames came out unusable due to shutter lag, so I sent it back for a full refund. But the Helios 103 gave me images I couldn't fet out of my head.

I sent off to Alex (on ebay) for a boxed 4AM, not repainted, it looked unused. It worked pretty well, some problem with the shutter firing but not signaling that I could wind to the next frame unless I re-depressed the shutter (why this?) - and the frames were all over the place.

Second roll, I drove over to MD, shot a roll at some historic site, and turned the lock on the bottom of the Kiev to release the transport for a rewind, but I seemed to have not gotten it right and the film tore off! OMG-- this was getting bad.

Third roll I was very careful - reading about Ruben's advice to rewind/keep the film tight, I found it was easy to do and was careful the film never got too loose. When the counter got to 34, to be safe, I stopped shooting and CAREFULLY aligned the lock to the red mark and slowly started to rewind. It worked! I got the film out and after 2 days got it developed. Even spacing! Great shots! Even with the squinty viewfinder, I had focused perfectly on all but 2 shots and those were shots taken in a tangle of tree branches in the shade.

Long story short - keeping film tight in the camera is a must. Care taken when winding (OH! I also did long turns so that a two step wind worked at all times, instead of my previous small twists wind-wind-wind-wind until it stopped). The Helios is one of my favorite 50mm lenses for nice bokeh. Stopped down it is sharp across the frame. An amazing lens at an amazing low cost.

Thanks to all you who helped with info about the Kiev and spacing problems, most especially to Ruben!

 

[kl122002]

januaryman,
my Kiev also have a similar problem with yours, I sometimes need to re-depressed the shutter buttom before winding to next frame. The shutter does operate amd give an exposure.

 

[januaryman]

So Kevin, did you figure out what's going on with it, or are you like me, just living with it? I figure it's just a quirk of the camera.

 

[giovatony]

If frame spacing problems is inherent in the Kiev design then I must have a problem with both of mine because neither one exhibits irregular frame spacing. I checked back on the past 8 rolls and all the negs were properly spaced.

 

[januaryman]

giovatony, I think it's more of an oft reported problem that crops up, rather than an inherent design flaw in the Kiev lineup... There have been several threads on this issue and the aforementioned "long wind" and "film tightening" techniques seem to relieve the problem for me.

 

[spiderfrank]

I have done only three rolls with my Kiev II, but I rewind the film with only one smooth movement (it's fast, if you move the wheel and the camera body in the same time): don't ask me why, but I think it can be more gentle with the film than a movement in two strokes. I didn't have film spacing problems, or other things, but of course I made too few rolls to make a statistic! ;-)
Now I've in camera a Helios 103 (found it at a flea market), I don't know if it will be good like the Jupiter-8, I'm really curious about it.

 

[giovatony]

I have done only three rolls with my Kiev II, but I rewind the film with only one smooth movement (it's fast, if you move the wheel and the camera body in the same time): don't ask me why, but I think it can be more gentle with the film than a movement in two strokes. I didn't have film spacing problems, or other things, but of course I made too few rolls to make a statistic! ;-)
Now I've in camera a Helios 103 (found it at a flea market), I don't know if it will be good like the Jupiter-8, I'm really curious about it.

OK, if a fast one turn wind works for you thats good , don`t change what works for you.
I find that winding a Kiev in two steps that are both calculated and smooth you have a better feel for a potential problem and can diagnose better when and where in the winding cycle it appears.
John

 

[giovatony]

giovatony, I think it's more of an oft reported problem that crops up, rather than an inherent design flaw in the Kiev lineup... There have been several threads on this issue and the aforementioned "long wind" and "film tightening" techniques seem to relieve the problem for me.

Yeah, I was just pokin fun at the "inherent design fault".
I have decided long ago to crank the slack film back into the roll after the leader is started. Basically because I want to see the rewind handle turn with the first two leader frames I crank to verify the film is advancing.
The added benefit is I can see the film laying flat and caught in the sprocket holes. This pretty much eliminates the possibility of the film slacking and coming out of the sprocket holes before closing the cover.
John

 

[januaryman]

Now I've in camera a Helios 103 (found it at a flea market), I don't know if it will be good like the Jupiter-8, I'm really curious about it.

You are going to fall in love with the Helios and the great bokeh this bargain priced lens delivers. As I keep saying, it's why I went after a replacement Kiev after trying the Helios on a camera I sent back for damaged shutters.

Here's one test shot I took over the weekend: