Film spacing problem with Kiev 4a

[RYonadim]

The frame spacing on my rolls are uneven and vary from frame to frame. As a result, I am forced to cut the film through the sprocket holes when filing the film.....not to mention, you lose a few frames each time you shoot a roll. Does anybody know of any repair method to remedy this problem?
Thanks for your input.

 

[peterc]

Does anybody know of any repair method to remedy this problem?

I have two Kievs with this problem. The only solution I've found is to wind the film slowly and evenly. Also, don't move the rewind knob at all until you plan to rewind.

Peter

 

[ed1k]

Huh, my Kiev is third to prove this design "feature" 🙂
Do you use short rolls by any chance, like 24 or 12 exposures? I usually experience spacing problem in the beginning of roll, that gives me some guessing. I'd very appreciate if someone posts cause and fix.
Eduard

 

[peterc]

Do you use short rolls by any chance, like 24 or 12 exposures?

I usually use 24 or 36 exposure rolls.
I have two versions of the design 'feature' ... one puts too much space between frames, the other too little.
For the one that puts too much space I wind the film tight in the cassette before the first frame. This usually evens things out a bit.
For the one that overlaps frames, I've found the slow but sure wind method works best.

Peter

 

[Stu W]

The film advance sprocket is directly geared to the winding knob. It turns a fixed amount with every wind. The only thing I can think of is a problem with the rewind button assy. Possibly the plunger is too long? causing the sprocket to be partially disengaged? I would check the film advance with the camera back removed. Mark off each frame and see if they're consistent. Stu

 

[peterc]

The film advance sprocket is directly geared to the winding knob.

The two Kievs I have with spacing problems have some play in the sprocket. This allows the film to move once it has been advanced.

Peter

 

[Stu W]

Peter, I just looked at a Kiev body. The plunger on the rewind button is only finger tight on mine. If I loosen it a couple of turns, the brass washer on the shaft cocks, the plunger disengages the film advance sprocket when the camera back is installed, and the advance is being handled by the take-up spool which would be erratic. As far as the play on the sprocket goes, my bodies all have a bit of play. Check the rewind button. Try removing the brass shims on it if there are any. Also the tip of the shaft on mine looks to have been adjusted with a file. Stu

 

[ed1k]

Thanks Stu. I will check this out. Something in a very back of my memory tells me you're right.

 

[Mark Wood]

I'm glad it's not just me that has this problem with Kievs. I've amassed 4 of them that all have the same frame spacing problem - too wide at the start of the film, narrowing to the point of almost overlapping in the middle and then fairly even (and correct) towards the end. Strangely, the worst is the oldest (from 1969) with the others all being from 1974/4. If it's any consolation, I've also got a Contax III that behaves in exactly the same way and as far as I know, it isn't full of Kiev parts. The first few frames have nearly 1 cm between them with this camera. (In all cases, this is using 24 exp film which I guess could be an issue if the problem is take-up spool related.) It isn't a huge problem except that it seems to upset automated slide mounters.
The light leaks are a different matter.....! (Tooke's Contax repair guide is on its way from Amazon as I type!)

 

[varjag]

Some seller (Oleg?) even used to have a special device for adjusting takeup fork friction.

My old repair guide though suggests disassembling the fork and straightening the spring slightly in case of problems with takeup. Probably makes sense if frames overlap, but am yet to try it.

 

[ddunn]

There was a thread on this last summer (if memory serves me correct). At that time the cause was thought to be wobble of the take-up spool.

I was relieved to find out it wasn't a major mechanical problem, just a "Kiev thing."

 

[peterc]

The plunger on the rewind button is only finger tight on mine.

Thanks, Stu. I'm guessing that's probably the cause on my 4am.
And I'm beginning to suspect takeup spool wobble on the 4.

Peter

 

[Hamster]

I'm glad it's not just me that has this problem with Kievs. I've amassed 4 of them that all have the same frame spacing problem - too wide at the start of the film, narrowing to the point of almost overlapping in the middle and then fairly even (and correct) towards the end. Strangely, the worst is the oldest (from 1969) with the others all being from 1974/4. If it's any consolation, I've also got a Contax III that behaves in exactly the same way and as far as I know, it isn't full of Kiev parts. The first few frames have nearly 1 cm between them with this camera. (In all cases, this is using 24 exp film which I guess could be an issue if the problem is take-up spool related.) It isn't a huge problem except that it seems to upset automated slide mounters.
The light leaks are a different matter.....! (Tooke's Contax repair guide is on its way from Amazon as I type!)

I an also having the same problem with one of my Kiev II, there is a thread on APUG where a guy from moscow gave explanation and fix to the problem.

http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25088

 

[ruben]

My suspect is the winding sprocket being somewhat loose (relatively to the strong effort falling upon it) Winding a Kiev is a rather violent action, therefore there is logic in the sprocket screw to become loose. Try to tighten the screw inside the sprocket as much as you can. Anyway it will never hurt.
Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Stu W]

Well, it can only be 1 of 2 things. As we agreed the sprocket determines how far the film advances, and as long as that isn't slipping the film spacing should always be exact. Without the sprocket the film advance would be erratic. If the rewind plunger is 1/16 too long it can cause the sprocket to be disengaged. Second would be the clutch on the take up spool. If that is too tight it can cause the film to skip over the teeth on the sprocket causing uneven spacing.
Or, of course, the camera can have both. I can duplicate the condition on my Kiev by holding the rewind button in just a bit and advancing the film. I didn't try tightening the clutch but that makes a lot of sense too. I think Daniel is probably right on target.