Film tearing on Contax I

[nickdando]

I've just had my Contax I back from a very expensive overhaul to correct a problem with the shutter leaving a gap when winding on at 1/25th of a second, in particular.
After checking all of the shutter speeds to make sure that the gap problem had been resolved, I loaded a test film, Fujifilm Superia 200, and used the spool from a Zeiss Ikon cassette as the wind-on spool. After about five shots the wind on became very stiff and the film tore, which it had done before the overhaul I might add. When I got home I unloaded and then tried another test film, Ilford FP4+ in a plastic re-usable cassette, again onto the ZI spool. This also tore.
I found that when a film is loaded the wind-on mechanism is much stiffer, and rewinding the film is really hard, almost painful. When empty the shutter wind is smooth, and the rewind knob moves very easily.
Is there a correct method to film loading to avoid the tearing, or will I need to send the camera back to the repairers under warranty?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Sounds like the timings of some gears might be off, I'm not an expert though.
Can you see if the film tore at the sprocket wheels or somewhere else?

 

[santino]

I think something is wrong with the wind mechanism. Maybe someone else could chime in with more expertise on Contax I cameras though.

 

[TenEleven]

That's an issue that shouldn't be happening to the camera. It should wind and re-wind smoothly.

It should be noted that some 35mm pre-war cameras were made with taller film canisters in mind. So when using modern film in those cameras it tends to sag a little - which can add friction. To my knowledge early Feds, Kievs, Barnack Leicas and Contax I and II are all affected.

This adds a bit of friction and drag to the wind and means you are not getting perfectly centered frames, but shouldn't result in the issue you are describing.

A simple fix for the sag is placing washers under the cartridge -- and in some cases under the take-up spool as well. Experimentation to find the right combination and height/size will be needed.

 

[nickdando]

It tears at the sprocket holes, mostly at the bottom.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Drawolid and Erik van Straten are two people on the RFF that I know have done the most work on Contax I cameras. I've only replaced shutter straps on a couple of them over the years.

My guess is that the sprocket wheels lock up, but I don't get why it would only happen after a few frames into the roll.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The best thing is not to use the Contax I at all.

When you have a Contax I that works, see it as a miracle.

When you want to be really happy with shooting a prewar Contax, get a Contax II.

See the recent comments of Jason Schneider here, on RFf.

Erik.

 

[David Hughes]

Clutch adjustment needed?


Regards, David

 

[Bill Jones]

I've just had my Contax I back from a very expensive overhaul to correct a problem with the shutter leaving a gap when winding on at 1/25th of a second, in particular.
After checking all of the shutter speeds to make sure that the gap problem had been resolved, I loaded a test film, Fujifilm Superia 200, and used the spool from a Zeiss Ikon cassette as the wind-on spool. After about five shots the wind on became very stiff and the film tore, which it had done before the overhaul I might add. When I got home I unloaded and then tried another test film, Ilford FP4+ in a plastic re-usable cassette, again onto the ZI spool. This also tore.
I found that when a film is loaded the wind-on mechanism is much stiffer, and rewinding the film is really hard, almost painful. When empty the shutter wind is smooth, and the rewind knob moves very easily.
Is there a correct method to film loading to avoid the tearing, or will I need to send the camera back to the repairers under warranty?

Nick,

You should try using the entire cassette as the take up as this may give a different height for the spool relative to the sprockets. The cassette should have an axial groove in the engagement tab that engages in the spindle in the camera's film chamber.

Or since you have some scrap film now try loading it in one Contax cassette and feeding to another (2 cassette method) to see if the feed works. Remember the Contax was built before there were any "Kodak" cassettes.

Bill

 

[nickdando]

I did try that with the back off, feeding from a plastic reusable to a ZI cassette, and I noticed that the film was sitting low from the plastic cassette and would have been below the guide rail. I don't have access to my other ZI cassettes as they are buried amongst an enormous number of cardboard boxes pending a, hopefully, imminent house move.
I have a 3 month warranty on the repairs so I'll have to hope that I've moved before the warranty expires.

 

[Dralowid]

The best thing is not to use the Contax I at all.


Erik.

I have to agree with Erik. My post Contax I therapy sessions are at last coming to an end. There are now no Zeiss cameras in my cupboard. It is a shame but life is returning to normal.

Your problem is one that I have not encountered but as others have said it may be to do with the gear train between the two rollers.

If you have paid someone to service it I'd send it back straight away and concentrate on your house move otherwise it will consume all your waking hours.

As an aside I'd be interested to know who serviced it and supplied a guarantee. When it comes to the Contax I all the experienced technicians that I have spoken to have declined to take on the work, to a man they reckon that you can get it working more or less but sure enough it won't be for long before it will be back.

 

[Dralowid]

On reflection my previous post was overly negative. For this I apologise.

 

[Ambro51]

I don’t think you should apologize for being too negative on the Contax 1. Did not Zeiss themselves basically admit it was put on the market too early, as “work in progress”, knowing there were substantial difficulties that would arise in use?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Zeiss even put batches back through the factory for updates/machining that had already been given serial numbers and were ready for shipment.
Retailers were pretty miffed about the delays in the early days of the Contax I.

 

[Ambro51]

Zeiss= making nine gears do the work of two.

 

[nickdando]

I've spoken to Sendean, where I got the camera and lenses repaired/cleaned. David, the mechanical camera expert, had been in contact with various of the "old boys" to find out how to deal with the camera (and he did mention that it was the best Contax I he'd seen - aw shucks!) and the shutter has certainly been sorted out. However, thanks to the info here about the differences in the sizes of old and new film cassettes, he's recommended that I dig out the ZI cassettes after I've moved on the 24th, and see if that improves things. He's put a note on my camera's record and increased the warranty by a month. If I still find that it's tearing film, then I can send it back for another go.
Wait and see after I've managed to locate the ZI cassettes, of which I have a good number - somewhere in the mass of packing boxes.

 

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I am an Italian enthusiast of the Contax RF cameras and sometimes I leave some messages here.

I've found hilarious that remark: Zeiss= making nine gears do the work of two., that's quite well known to those who had a Zeiss camera in their hands. Even in the unfortunate "Ikonette", Zeiss Ikon was able to complicate things...

I have my grandfather's Contaxes, both pre- and postwar ones (plus some further ones acquired by me...) and their beautiful lenses.

When I was a young boy, and grandad taught me photography's fundamentals, he used his Contax-II and a Contax-I. Of the latter, he appreciated the shutter's noise, much quieter than the Contax-II.

Some years ago, I've been lucky enough to buy an early, working Contax-I (factory-updated to the "Viergruppen-Zeiteneinstellung"), body Nr. U. 20364, equipped with its original 50/2,8 Tessar lens. I try not to "stress" it, but I don't think it's a miracle to have it able to shoot a 36-exposures film...

All the best,

E.L.

 

[Corran]

My Contax I works pretty well. 24 shots, great! Past that, yep it tears the film. I bulk load shorter rolls for it when I use it...

A sticker inside shows it was serviced in the 90s at some camera shop.

Surprisingly it works better than the few Contax II/III cameras I also have.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

None of my three working Contax I cameras tear their film though. I've shot regular 135/36 rolls with them.
They do tend to scratch the film emulsion, but I'm told that's mainly when you rewind the film inside the camera.

 

[Dralowid]

Nor I. never had a problem with normal cassettes