Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I use Leica, CV and Zeiss glass and freely swap between them. One of my minor obsessions is that i rarely change my bl/w processing. Once I have established a routine - I stick to it. This means one less factor to contend with, but it also gives me a change to see how a specific lens behaves, compared to all the other!
One of the keys in my liking the ZM lens line is its consistency. They all behave pretty much the same. I have never found any major shift in ontrast between them (the exception is the 35f2.8 with its slightly higher contrast, compared to the rest). From the 18mm all the way to the 50mm lenses, they have the same "tones". I did try a 15f2.8 and the 85f2 but not enough to warrant an opinion on either of them.
There are considerably more variations in the Leica line up when it comes to contrast. Some of the Asph lenses (21/24/28/35) are so contrasty that you truly have to keep track of which film you used and usually "pull" them in the processing to be able to print them easily! Unfortunately their contrast is not consistent between lense either!
The CV lenses have differences in rendition too, but not as dramatic as the Leica lenses.
Part of the problem lies in how you meter and how you process. It is sometimes too easy to blame a lens for "blown" highlights or blocked shadows and all it is is a mistake in metering. If you rely entirely on a in camera meter this can be a problem. Of course, ideally we should all use multi zone spotmeters and do +/- processing, but for practical reasons, all we need to to is tell the meter that it is off and compensate.
Flim has limited range and as long as you hold it between 5-6 stops and process accordingly, most everything will be recorded. Of course, this is very much a case of doing as I say, not as i do! I still keep stock of paper ranging from Agfa #6 to Ilford #1 and a full complement of filters from 00 to 5 as well as occasional mixing up Selectol Soft type paper developers to compensate for mistakes! Learning is a life long venture and, truthfully, the process of learning can sometimes be more fun than finding the "Truth" and have everything come out perfect!
One of the keys in my liking the ZM lens line is its consistency. They all behave pretty much the same. I have never found any major shift in ontrast between them (the exception is the 35f2.8 with its slightly higher contrast, compared to the rest). From the 18mm all the way to the 50mm lenses, they have the same "tones". I did try a 15f2.8 and the 85f2 but not enough to warrant an opinion on either of them.
There are considerably more variations in the Leica line up when it comes to contrast. Some of the Asph lenses (21/24/28/35) are so contrasty that you truly have to keep track of which film you used and usually "pull" them in the processing to be able to print them easily! Unfortunately their contrast is not consistent between lense either!
The CV lenses have differences in rendition too, but not as dramatic as the Leica lenses.
Part of the problem lies in how you meter and how you process. It is sometimes too easy to blame a lens for "blown" highlights or blocked shadows and all it is is a mistake in metering. If you rely entirely on a in camera meter this can be a problem. Of course, ideally we should all use multi zone spotmeters and do +/- processing, but for practical reasons, all we need to to is tell the meter that it is off and compensate.
Flim has limited range and as long as you hold it between 5-6 stops and process accordingly, most everything will be recorded. Of course, this is very much a case of doing as I say, not as i do! I still keep stock of paper ranging from Agfa #6 to Ilford #1 and a full complement of filters from 00 to 5 as well as occasional mixing up Selectol Soft type paper developers to compensate for mistakes! Learning is a life long venture and, truthfully, the process of learning can sometimes be more fun than finding the "Truth" and have everything come out perfect!
Avotius
Some guy
What Tom A said really hits the nail on the head. I have an established way I develop film and handle processing, I have been doing it like that for a couple years now. To get results more in tune with what im used to with the ZM lenses I have to change my routine which is a little annoying to say the least. But I am flexible and have only been playing with new film and chemicals on a very limited basis because im simply not at liberty to get my hands on everything I want. I am willing to play with it though and it can be expected that I will show some more results later on of what I have ended up with.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Thanks for this review, Colin--you convinced me, and I bought a used copy from KEH just moments ago. I loved the G version of this lens (though eventually got frustrated with the G1 itself) and your photos remind me of how much I missed it. I'm certain it will be my standard lens on the R-D1 and a favorite wide on my Bessa.
Please tell me you're marrying that girl? This entire forum is completely in love with her.
Please tell me you're marrying that girl? This entire forum is completely in love with her.
Avotius
Some guy
That girl? Who knows, we have been together for almost 3 years now. She is 24, im 23 and we both agree its a little early to be getting married or anything like that yet. Afterall, she is a photographer, I am a photographer, and we travel a lot. Sooooo........yeah, whatever....
Anyway, glad you like the lens review, im very pleased with mine, the more I use it the more I love the handling of it. A little thicker then the 50 planar but shorter too...perfect.
Anyway, glad you like the lens review, im very pleased with mine, the more I use it the more I love the handling of it. A little thicker then the 50 planar but shorter too...perfect.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
So....sounds like a match made in heaven! Careful, you might just argue yourself onto the altar.
Yeah, I really appreciate your lens reviews, Colin. Pictures aren't enough, a person needs to be a good writer to explain why something is worth using, and your descriptions fit the bill. The contrast and corner/edge sharpness on that thing remind me of what I liked about my G pictures, and of course I always enjoy looking at your photos, regardless of what they're shot with. Keep on keeping us informed about your gear.
Roma
Well-known
Zeiss is definitely consistent with their lenses. Their Contax line had very similar characteristics to the new ZM line (colder and higher contrast). I think a slight pulling with Zeiss lenses and Leica ASPH line is the only answer for black and white if you like shadow detail.
On that note, I was agonizing over a 28mm lens for a while and found a second version of Elmarit in great shape that Sherry is cleaning/greasing for me now. I chose it over others mainly because all of the modern lenses are so dam.. contrasty.
Anyway, great post!
On that note, I was agonizing over a 28mm lens for a while and found a second version of Elmarit in great shape that Sherry is cleaning/greasing for me now. I chose it over others mainly because all of the modern lenses are so dam.. contrasty.
Anyway, great post!
Avotius
Some guy
To reawaken an old thread I have some pictures of taken on a third type of film used with the Zeiss 28 Biogon, the others being black and white Trix and color negative Superia 200. This time some shots with slide film of the Velvia and Provia flavors from a recent trip to Pingyao.
First the Velvia 100F's
Quiet alley ways like a maze of bricks and turns. Walking along the tight paths in a area where it is strangely quiet, then the sound of pattering feet, a little girl comes running around a corner and in an instant disappears around another.
Pingyao is a city of walls and doors. Some doors are modern, some are old, some are just neat. This big door rusting away guards the main compound of the house within. It did puzzle me why they have a lock on the outside of the door though.
Little boys all over China like to play in piles of stuff. Outside my house there is a pile of bricks that have been there for a week and little boys come and build little things out of them like race cars and castles. When I asked this boy what he was making he said it was a pile, an apt response I suppose.
If doors could talk...
I decided to stay around this block for a while to see if anyone would go into this tiny house. The door to the window and about the same depth in. The person who lives in this place must have a few stories to tell. No one ever came back to the house and at this busy alley way within the old Pingyao palisade there were a string of old small houses like this but none so weathered.
The alley ways of the houses on the inside of the old Pingyao town piles of coal are delivered to houses for cooking and heating use. Its an old style way to do things in an old town where there is still a lot of resistance to the modern conveniences that are arriving on their door steps as well.
And now for some Provia 100F's
In a town that is so compact to see this kind of open area where things are just stashed here is a little odd. The lady is on her way to one end to get coal, later a man comes to pick up some wood. A community spot I guess...
Last year when I was in Pingyao I bought things at a little shop that was right here, this year the house and shop are gone, the only clues being on the bricks where the walls used to reach to on the buildings next to it and the remaining rubble.
First the Velvia 100F's
Quiet alley ways like a maze of bricks and turns. Walking along the tight paths in a area where it is strangely quiet, then the sound of pattering feet, a little girl comes running around a corner and in an instant disappears around another.
Pingyao is a city of walls and doors. Some doors are modern, some are old, some are just neat. This big door rusting away guards the main compound of the house within. It did puzzle me why they have a lock on the outside of the door though.
Little boys all over China like to play in piles of stuff. Outside my house there is a pile of bricks that have been there for a week and little boys come and build little things out of them like race cars and castles. When I asked this boy what he was making he said it was a pile, an apt response I suppose.
If doors could talk...
I decided to stay around this block for a while to see if anyone would go into this tiny house. The door to the window and about the same depth in. The person who lives in this place must have a few stories to tell. No one ever came back to the house and at this busy alley way within the old Pingyao palisade there were a string of old small houses like this but none so weathered.
The alley ways of the houses on the inside of the old Pingyao town piles of coal are delivered to houses for cooking and heating use. Its an old style way to do things in an old town where there is still a lot of resistance to the modern conveniences that are arriving on their door steps as well.
And now for some Provia 100F's
In a town that is so compact to see this kind of open area where things are just stashed here is a little odd. The lady is on her way to one end to get coal, later a man comes to pick up some wood. A community spot I guess...
Last year when I was in Pingyao I bought things at a little shop that was right here, this year the house and shop are gone, the only clues being on the bricks where the walls used to reach to on the buildings next to it and the remaining rubble.
pipal
Established
Avotius, thanks for resurrecting this thread. I did not notice it previously, but I am enjoying it very much now. I like your color photos and review of the lens (as well as the others for different lenses you wrote). Well done, sir!
Regarding the B/W photos, I have two notes
- you said you like Ilford, so if you can try their DD-X developer, go and try it, it will make your photos sing when mastered properly (the key is gentle agitation) gives smooth and nice grain.
- regarding the grain (not only the Tri-X you tested) - it looks far worse when scanned from negative. just take your favorite b/w photo and carefully enlarge it in the classic dark room (or let someone to do so for you). You will see a whole lot of difference and love the grain it shows
again, thanks for sharing
Martin
Regarding the B/W photos, I have two notes
- you said you like Ilford, so if you can try their DD-X developer, go and try it, it will make your photos sing when mastered properly (the key is gentle agitation) gives smooth and nice grain.
- regarding the grain (not only the Tri-X you tested) - it looks far worse when scanned from negative. just take your favorite b/w photo and carefully enlarge it in the classic dark room (or let someone to do so for you). You will see a whole lot of difference and love the grain it shows
again, thanks for sharing
Martin
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squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Very nice as usual, Colin! I especially like the Velvia pics. Saturation is easy enough with digital, but there is something about the way that film defines edges and transitions between light and dark that I love.
I've continued to use my ZM 28 with pleasure, and I am very eager to try it with Kodak's new neg film. A couple recent shots on the R-D1:
I've continued to use my ZM 28 with pleasure, and I am very eager to try it with Kodak's new neg film. A couple recent shots on the R-D1:
Tim Gray
Well-known
That door shot (2nd one from the last batch) is awesome.
nightfly
Well-known
Avotius your color shots are beautiful and would in and of themselves convince me to buy this lens if I only shot color. However, it definitely lacks something in black and white in much the same way as the CV 28mm 3.5 does. I love the color shots, but the black and whites are lacking somehow. I too have a process I use consistently for black and white and it just doesn't work as well for the CV and I love grain.
I'd really like a 28mm that renders black and whites like my 35mm v3 Summicron but haven't hit it yet. But damn those color are awesome!
I'd really like a 28mm that renders black and whites like my 35mm v3 Summicron but haven't hit it yet. But damn those color are awesome!
Dan States
Established
It's all about the processing, not wether it's a Leica or a Zeiss. If you work with your tools enough you can get fine art grade prints from just about any lens....The Summar proved that to me. Zeiss lenses do well with a bit less development as they are very high in contrast and clarity.
Turtle
Veteran
it is just about processing. My ZMs are sharp but produce a beautiful tonal rendition which I know is subjective...
drjoke
Well-known
You use your lens with out filter?
drjoke
Well-known
What scanner do you use? And, you seem to have a way of controlling contrast on Velvia. I have only used Velvia 100. May be 100F has l lower contast?
drjoke
Well-known
Anyway, you seem to have preference for wider lenses. I was checking out your Flickr. I am only able to think with 50mm so far.
hon910
Established
Avotius,
I finally got myself a Zeiss 28mm Biogon after seeing your images, u inspired me to get one.
The results so far was satisfying.
I finally got myself a Zeiss 28mm Biogon after seeing your images, u inspired me to get one.
The results so far was satisfying.
Avotius
Some guy
No filter but only because I have not had the funds to buy one yet. Also no lens hood for same reason.
I use a Fuji S2000 scanner, 100F has much stronger contrast then 100 as can be seen in the shot of the kid with the dirt, his hair is blacked out a little, a typical thing that happens when I shoot velvia 100F.
Typically I use more 50mm lenses, lately I have been using wider lenses because I have been trying out some new styles of shooting, but if you look at my flickr you will see most of the things on there taken with a 50.
Avotius
Some guy
Great news, glad you found something you liked.
I just wanted to mention here too that I have shot more pictures with film, some Delta 400 and some more Trix 400 and been playing with the developing a little using a method of Ilford LC29 in a 1:29 mixture and increasing my aggitation frequency and strength to get some different results all together with the lens. I dont have anything scanned at the moment as its all been going on in the darkroom but I hope in the coming weeks to have something to show.
Anyone using this lens with an M8? How's it working out?