Finding a Zeiss Ikon ZM in Europe

[Scrambler]

The Problem is to me.. I am not at all seing me buying a camera with a cloth shutter, so all Leica's are out. The only rangefinder camera I like so far is the Mamiya 7 which is very much because of the rangefinder. Another thing is, anything Leica except for an M2 or M5 is actually much more expensive than the ZM. So it is basically down tho the ZM, a Bessa of any make or not trying 35mm Rangefinders at all (outside the Contax IIIA I have).

My suggestion would be an electronic slight risk but a great camera: a Konica Hexar RF. I've owned one, best RF I've owned. I don't own one: I now have an Epson R-D1 which is more electronic, and the same age. The electronic systems are actually decently reliable but not eternal.

You can look at Cosina cameras like the Voigtlander Bessa R series in one of 2 ways: they are decent and capable, or they are generic-label cameras being given elevated value by the 'Leica Aura.' Both are true. I own 2 Cosina built cameras, the CV about 5 years newer than the Ricoh-branded SLR. The price of the CV was 10 times the Ricoh, and 100x would not be impossible. The Ricoh is a retired student camera and has the body markings to prove it, but works perfectly 20 years later.

If it's the RF you like, with integrated viewfinder, then there are few options. All will be expensive. But you will be able to sell for the same money, assuming you can afford to buy and keep. The lowest price point, with some VF/RF inferiority vs the above, would be a late Canon RF with metal film shutter: like cloth in function but more durable. LTM only, but if you want to reduce costs this is almost an advantage: prevents hugely expensive GAS.

Given your existing Contax camera, a Bessa R2c would save you having to buy a new lens at all.

 

[willdmo]

My suggestion would be an electronic slight risk but a great camera: a Konica Hexar RF. I've owned one, best RF I've owned. I don't own one: I now have an Epson R-D1 which is more electronic, and the same age. The electronic systems are actually decently reliable but not eternal.

You can look at Cosina cameras like the Voigtlander Bessa R series in one of 2 ways: they are decent and capable, or they are generic-label cameras being given elevated value by the 'Leica Aura.' Both are true. I own 2 Cosina built cameras, the CV about 5 years newer than the Ricoh-branded SLR. The price of the CV was 10 times the Ricoh, and 100x would not be impossible. The Ricoh is a retired student camera and has the body markings to prove it, but works perfectly 20 years later.

If it's the RF you like, with integrated viewfinder, then there are few options. All will be expensive. But you will be able to sell for the same money, assuming you can afford to buy and keep. The lowest price point, with some VF/RF inferiority vs the above, would be a late Canon RF with metal film shutter: like cloth in function but more durable. LTM only, but if you want to reduce costs this is almost an advantage: prevents hugely expensive GAS.

Given your existing Contax camera, a Bessa R2c would save you having to buy a new lens at all.

I like some points you made.

I owned and sold a Canon P and a Canon 7. I did not warm up with them enough to keep em. The finder was niceish, but the overall operation was not to my liking and I only kept a Nicca 5 as ltm camera. To me the best RF would be A Pentax LX with rangefinder and the closest I could find was the ZM.

The R2C is out because of the price fpr Contax lenses and lens selection on those. Also, why would I get a Bessa, if the Contax works perfectly fine on me, including its shutter and rangefinder. If the finder is too dim, I can still opt for the russian revolverfinder.

Up to now I lived quite well with electronics (Pentax LX, Super A, 6x7 and Mamiya 7)

The Epson is digital, so not the one for me, the Hexar is to be said to be the least reliable electronic film rangefinder camera with Leica Mount and has issues with the framelines. That put me off on that one. The Bessa is on a quick ebay lookup R2, R2A, R2M not much differently priced than the ZM. If both are "equally good cameras", I'd opt for the one I like more from its looks and the viewfinder is to be said better. 😀

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Not to burst your bubble but besides the best VF ever the Zeiss Ikon does not age well. Paint chips easily. The rest of the camera is a warmed over CV Bessa which is a warmed ever Nikon FM10 (yuch). Plus they go for used way more than they sell for originally. Yes it is aperture preferred. For my money I would get a Nikon FE for about 8% of the cost. Built better in every way. Just saying......

Even my EM (second generation) has better build than any CV RF 135 format camera 🙂 But FE/EM aren't RF.

 

[Scrambler]

<SNIP>
The Epson is digital, so not the one for me, the Hexar is to be said to be the least reliable electronic film rangefinder camera with Leica Mount and has issues with the framelines. That put me off on that one. The Bessa is on a quick ebay lookup R2, R2A, R2M not much differently priced than the ZM. If both are "equally good cameras", I'd opt for the one I like more from its looks and the viewfinder is to be said better. 😀

My Epson comment was to explain why I sold the Hexar. The Epson isn't for you 🙂

Least reliable? Not that I heard and not that I experienced. It was a beast. If you offered me a free Leica or a free Hexar, I wouldn't be taking the Leica.

Framelines: it has a 0.6x VF. There's nothing else to complain about. If you use 135mm a lot, it's not so good. If you wear glasses and use 28-90mm, it is sweeter than anything Leica. If you don't wear glasses but use wides it's still great.

VF on the Hexar RF is 100% Leica compatible, meaning even goggled lenses will work.

But it seems you have looked, and tried, and your choice makes sense. Good luck on your quest.

 

[kshapero]

Even my EM (second generation) has better build than any CV RF 135 format camera 🙂 But FE/EM aren't RF.

True but I believe the hipsters (or some drunkin sailors) have wacked the prices on rangefinders to the point of insanity. IMHO. Therefore my comment on the Nikon FE.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

True but I believe the hipsters (or some drunkin sailors) have wacked the prices on rangefinders to the point of insanity. IMHO. Therefore my comment on the Nikon FE.

I didn't know what hipsters and sailors are this rich.

 

[Rayt]

I like some points you made.

I owned and sold a Canon P and a Canon 7. I did not warm up with them enough to keep em. The finder was niceish, but the overall operation was not to my liking and I only kept a Nicca 5 as ltm camera. To me the best RF would be A Pentax LX with rangefinder and the closest I could find was the ZM.

The R2C is out because of the price fpr Contax lenses and lens selection on those. Also, why would I get a Bessa, if the Contax works perfectly fine on me, including its shutter and rangefinder. If the finder is too dim, I can still opt for the russian revolverfinder.

Up to now I lived quite well with electronics (Pentax LX, Super A, 6x7 and Mamiya 7)

The Epson is digital, so not the one for me, the Hexar is to be said to be the least reliable electronic film rangefinder camera with Leica Mount and has issues with the framelines. That put me off on that one. The Bessa is on a quick ebay lookup R2, R2A, R2M not much differently priced than the ZM. If both are "equally good cameras", I'd opt for the one I like more from its looks and the viewfinder is to be said better. 😀

The problem with the R2C and the Nikon RF version is the lack of selection in vintage lenses so one would need to fill the gaps with VC lenses but why when the same VC lenses are available in LTM?

 

[Rayt]

Posted twice

 

[willdmo]

VF on the Hexar RF is 100% Leica compatible, meaning even goggled lenses will work.

tried out... I wish. There is no shop nearby to try any option except maybe a digital Leica or an MP.

in the Hexar, it looks nice, I read good things but sometimes I read that it does not necessarily switch framelines with lenses like Leica intended it to.


https://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/09/23/the-five-greatest-m-mount-film-cameras-of-all-time/


In Leica M-mount arent much "electronic" cameras anyways.

 

[willdmo]

The problem with the R2C and the Nikon RF version is the lack of selection in vintage lenses so one would need to fill the gaps with VC lenses but why when the same VC lenses are available in LTM?

Yes. The Voigtländer lenses are not made anymore for Nikon/Contax and the same lens in ltm or M-Mount costs half the price of the C/S Mount alterntative. With the Old Nikon and Contax A Versions you also have the problem, that some old wide angles, especially the Biogon clone Jupiter-12 hit something in the camera body and can not be used. For this cases you are locked on Kiev bodies or Contax before the "A" Bodies

 

[Scrambler]

tried out... I wish. There is no shop nearby to try any option except maybe a digital Leica or an MP.

in the Hexar, it looks nice, I read good things but sometimes I read that it does not necessarily switch framelines with lenses like Leica intended it to.


https://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/09/23/the-five-greatest-m-mount-film-cameras-of-all-time/


In Leica M-mount arent much "electronic" cameras anyways.

No, reading that review it's a reference to somone reporting the mount distance from film was a tiny bit different to Leica. It's a mistake. The mount is 100% compatible. The flange-to -film difference is the same even if the flange-to-pressure-plate is marginally (0.4 mm? I could be wrong) different. The frame lines work exactly the same as Leica. Occasionally there are mount adapters ex China that don't call up the correct lines on any camera, but the Hexar RF is no more prone to that than a Leica. I only used screw mount lenses, I used them also on a Leica IIIc and a Bessa R. All the same with focus. My adapters called up the lines I wanted. The Minolta CLE does weird stuff: 35mm lenses call up 28mm framelines, 50mm bring up 40mm framelines. Only 90mm lenses call up the correct lines.

 

[jjcha]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ss_1397_805_ikon_35mm_rangefinder_camera.html

... if you're up for paying shipping and any duties from New York, New York, USA

Wow, being in Japan where they go for just about $2000, that was an insanely good price. I was tempted to buy it but I see it's already gone!

 

[willdmo]

The B&H offer never showed to me. sadly

 

[willdmo]

N My adapters called up the lines I wanted. The Minolta CLE does weird stuff: 35mm lenses call up 28mm framelines, 50mm bring up 40mm framelines. Only 90mm lenses call up the correct lines.

Thats useful information. So the difference between Konica and ZM is down to if I want to have the film advanced or advance myself 😀

Thanky very much