finest grain B&W film?

splitimageview

splitimageview

coincidence rangefinder
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What's your choice for a fine grained B&W that can be developed using easily obtained chemicals? Speaking of 135 format, and what developer would you use?
 
splitimageview said:
What's your choice for a fine grained B&W that can be developed using easily obtained chemicals?
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By far the finest grained film on the market is Adox CMS 20 II. But it works best in Adotech IV developer.

Then there is quite a gap. The next fine grained films are Adox HR-50 and IR-HR Pro.
After that comes Acros. TMX is very close, only a slight difference to Acros in fineness of grain.
After that comes PanF+. And then Delta 100.

Concerning sharpness and resolution the ranking order is a bit different: Delta 100 is sharper and higher resolving than PanF+.
 
I find it sometimes hard to tame the contrast of Pan F under strong lighting conditions (high mountains or sw deserts). I like Acros.....but we can weep over its disappearance. My failsafe is Ilford FP4+ & my standard developer is Pyrocat HD in glycol. If I have to print larger than 11x14 then I use medium or large format.
 
Whatever film one chooses, a lot depends on how it's developed. I like to use Microdol X, which gives a tight, smooth film grain. People have gotten excellent results w/ the Pyro developers too. And I agree, if one wants fine grain, move up in film size. I have some shots made with Tri-X in 120 format that look very, very different than 35mm grain. For the films that Skiff mentioned, I like Delta 100 for its sharpness and beautiful tones. Great film.
 
Remember, too, that fine grain and sharpness have to be traded off against one another: the finest grained films suitable for general use are never the sharpest, and the sharpest films suitable for general use are never the finest grained.

As well as affecting sharpness and grain, developers affect speed very widely: in most normal developers, Pan F is ISO (NOT EI) 25-80.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Remember, too, that fine grain and sharpness have to be traded off against one another: the finest grained films suitable for general use are never the sharpest, and the sharpest films suitable for general use are never the finest grained.
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That generalisation is not true. Just some examples:
1. Adox CMS 20 II is both the finest grained and the sharpest film on the market.
2. Adox IR-HR / HR-50 is significantly finer grained than TMX, Delta 100, Acros, PanF+, and also a bit sharper than the sharpest of these (which are TMX and Delta 100).
3. T-Max 400 is both the sharpest and finest grain ISO 400 film.
4. Ilford XP2 Super is both a bit finer grained and a little bit sharper than Delta 400.
5. Agfa APX 25 was both the sharpest and finest grained ISO 25/15° back in its days.
 
Sharpness vs. grain

Sharpness vs. grain

Thank you Roger for pointing out that "the finest grained films suitable for general use are never the sharpest, and the sharpest films suitable for general use are never the finest grained." I found Tmax100 had very fine grain, yet I didn't like the way the images looked because to me, they weren't very sharp. I found that the rendering of Tmax400 is much sharper to my eye with only slightly more grain. This has become my go to film for just about every situation.
 
I guess Roger and Skiff are both right. Often grain adds to the perception of sharpness as does higher contrast in both cases it's not really higher sharpness but perception of sharpness.

Finest grain is probably Adox CMS-II but the film does have its shortcomings; its low speed is one of them.

Finest grain medium speed film is probably Tmax 100 or Fuji Acros.
 
J enea said:
rollei retro 80s/adox HR-50 is the finest, followed by the usual suspects, pan f, tmax 100, acros and RPX 25. Rmember, you asked for film that can be developed in general developers. otherwise Adox CMS 20 is far and away the leader...
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I really like RPX 25, yes I realize its the same as Retro 80S.

What happens with CMS 20 if its in some other developer? I am itching to try it but not really looking forward to altering my usual Rodinal 1:50 formula. I have seen several different and sometimes-contradictory recommendations for Rodinal.
 
Fine grained is TriX. IMO.
I use Kodak 50D @25 for fine grain results as well.
It develops, scans and prints as BW. I like it in Rodinal.
I like it as fine BW film without boutique price tag.
 
PanF+ at 25 in Perceptol 1:1 is pretty darn fine, and isn’t hard to control.

Rollei Ortho 25 in Rodinal 1:50 and the document films are low grain but finicky with exposure and development.

Delta 100 in many developers is remarkably fine grained, as is ADOX Silvermax in the dedicated developer or Rodinal.

APX25 and Panatomic-X used to be.
 
I'm likely to be run out of town on a rail for mentioning this, but the few rolls of C-41 black and white film I've shot over the years had no discernible grain at all. None. However, the gradation from dark to light isn't terribly even, so keep that drawback in mind.

Scott
 
splitimageview said:
What's your choice for a fine grained B&W that can be developed using easily obtained chemicals? Speaking of 135 format, and what developer would you use?
Click to expand...

FP4 with Ilfosol3 is a nice combo.
TMax films with TMax developer are also excellent.

If you need finer grain than those can offer you might consider medium format which makes grain a bit less of an issue.
 
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