shrink
Newbie
Hello everyone,
since this is my first post, let me say "Hello".
I only have a very few years experience with photography and only used SLR-systems so far. I started very basic and went some steps to the more creative photography over the time. As I have to admit, I have only few experiences with film, mainly used digital cameras so far. I now had to see, that the quality of film is better than digital quality (at least, when you want to get frames, that don't seem to be "sterile"). As I like the opportunities of RF-cameras, I now want to make the step into the film-world and this time (so many SLRs later) I want to do it right and buy something I am happy with for years/decades. So: I want a Leica M!
The thing I can't decide is wether to take the M7 or the MP. Over the time I mentioned, that the more automatisms the camera offers, the lazier I get. This - unfortunately - does not really improve the results. So it perhaps seems obvious, that a MP would be the right choice. But what do you think? MP or M7?
What I want to do: I shoot "everything", when I find it to look beautiful. I found out, that 90% of my work would be covered with a 50mm and a 90mm lens. I want to have fun when taking frames and working in an own darkroom.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Thorsten
PS: Please excuse my bad English!
since this is my first post, let me say "Hello".
I only have a very few years experience with photography and only used SLR-systems so far. I started very basic and went some steps to the more creative photography over the time. As I have to admit, I have only few experiences with film, mainly used digital cameras so far. I now had to see, that the quality of film is better than digital quality (at least, when you want to get frames, that don't seem to be "sterile"). As I like the opportunities of RF-cameras, I now want to make the step into the film-world and this time (so many SLRs later) I want to do it right and buy something I am happy with for years/decades. So: I want a Leica M!
The thing I can't decide is wether to take the M7 or the MP. Over the time I mentioned, that the more automatisms the camera offers, the lazier I get. This - unfortunately - does not really improve the results. So it perhaps seems obvious, that a MP would be the right choice. But what do you think? MP or M7?
What I want to do: I shoot "everything", when I find it to look beautiful. I found out, that 90% of my work would be covered with a 50mm and a 90mm lens. I want to have fun when taking frames and working in an own darkroom.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Thorsten
PS: Please excuse my bad English!
M
merciful
Guest
M3. Cheaper, nicer, better VF for 50/90mm lenses.
jdos2
Well-known
Between your choices listed, I'd recommend, if you are used to the automation, then get the M7.
The MP is a modern attempt to copy the M3, but with a meter, and that's all. The M7, and get a recent serial number for the finder fixes, is a more convenient camera to use if one prefers the camera do some of the automation- aperture priority.
JD
The MP is a modern attempt to copy the M3, but with a meter, and that's all. The M7, and get a recent serial number for the finder fixes, is a more convenient camera to use if one prefers the camera do some of the automation- aperture priority.
JD
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R
RML
Guest
I too would recommend you start with a cheaper RF, something like an M3 or M2 or one of the Voigtlander Bessa flavours (perhaps second-hand from a member here?). That way you won't break the bank on a camera that might not be right for your style of shooting.
peter_n
Veteran
Welcome to the forum Thorsten! Of your choices I would select the M7, the MP seems like an anachronism to me. With the M7 you have a modern camera that will allow you to use aperture priority AE or completely manual if you choose, it has a great meter and if you use AE you will get mostly perfect exposures.
Of your choices I would select the M7, the MP seems like an anachronism to me. With the M7 you have a modern camera that will allow you to use aperture priority AE or completely manual if you choose, it has a great meter and if you use AE you will get mostly perfect exposures.
berci
Photographer Level: ****
Hi,
I would go for the M7 too, aperture priority is very very useful and won't make you lazy.
Berci
Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7,
I would go for the M7 too, aperture priority is very very useful and won't make you lazy.
Berci
Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7, Go for the M7,
MP its just so nice to hold and look at
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Must agree with Remy... first off, test the rangefinder style. Don't jump into it with great expectations. The camera won't make your photos better, you do.
Instead of breaking the bank with a Leica, go for a simpler, inexpensive rangefinder camera. Leicas (and RF cameras by extension) aren't for everyone. They're riddled with limitations (no macro, no supertelephoto either, no direct viewing of the image, parallax mistakes are likely at close distance) and, please, don't get me wrong, they're very manual and demand that you visualize the shot before you take it.
If you still want to try... get a Canonet, a Yashica GS or a Konica S2. They are all very competent approximations to what a Leica is: nice viewfinders, sensitive metering, some degree of automation if you want, wide and fast lenses... Just not handmade with brass parts.
Once you've used one of these, it's entirely up to you to take the metered or unmetered route. Leicas come in both; the old ones, without a built-in meter, are allegedly "better" built (something I don't believe; they're all well built!), and very solid and reliable. The later crop (from 1984 on), have reliable meters (M6, MP & M6TTL), and even automation (M7). Those who favored the former, non-metered bodies will tell you they'll outlast the metered ones because the electronics, sooner or later, die. However, the metered bodies save you the time of metering constantly for the exposure (unless you like that kind of thing).
In any event, Thorsten, the choice is up to you. I'm simply passing on the same advice I got when I made the transition from an AF Nikon SLR to an all-manual Canonet. I've found my style changes substantially from one type of camera to another, but it took time for me to realize that. Besides, my initial investment of $76 (for my Canonet) gave me ample room for film experiments.
Good luck and have fun shopping for a rangefinder. In fact, if you want to know more... Click HERE FOR CAMERA QUEST. This is Stephen Gandy's Bible-like website on rangefinder cameras, the university we all graduated from...
Take care!
Instead of breaking the bank with a Leica, go for a simpler, inexpensive rangefinder camera. Leicas (and RF cameras by extension) aren't for everyone. They're riddled with limitations (no macro, no supertelephoto either, no direct viewing of the image, parallax mistakes are likely at close distance) and, please, don't get me wrong, they're very manual and demand that you visualize the shot before you take it.
If you still want to try... get a Canonet, a Yashica GS or a Konica S2. They are all very competent approximations to what a Leica is: nice viewfinders, sensitive metering, some degree of automation if you want, wide and fast lenses... Just not handmade with brass parts.
Once you've used one of these, it's entirely up to you to take the metered or unmetered route. Leicas come in both; the old ones, without a built-in meter, are allegedly "better" built (something I don't believe; they're all well built!), and very solid and reliable. The later crop (from 1984 on), have reliable meters (M6, MP & M6TTL), and even automation (M7). Those who favored the former, non-metered bodies will tell you they'll outlast the metered ones because the electronics, sooner or later, die. However, the metered bodies save you the time of metering constantly for the exposure (unless you like that kind of thing).
In any event, Thorsten, the choice is up to you. I'm simply passing on the same advice I got when I made the transition from an AF Nikon SLR to an all-manual Canonet. I've found my style changes substantially from one type of camera to another, but it took time for me to realize that. Besides, my initial investment of $76 (for my Canonet) gave me ample room for film experiments.
Good luck and have fun shopping for a rangefinder. In fact, if you want to know more... Click HERE FOR CAMERA QUEST. This is Stephen Gandy's Bible-like website on rangefinder cameras, the university we all graduated from...
Take care!
Designer
Keven
Welcome to the club! Thorsten.
M7 and then M2
Keven
M7 and then M2
Keven
jdos2
Well-known
Um... There's nobody trying to... Hum... Sell anything, in this thread?
Hmmm?
Hmmm?
To answer your original question, I think that MP would be the best for you. You sound like you want full control over the camera. The manual camera sounds like it is what you will ultimately buy. So why not buy it now, get the MP.
If you do not mind an older, used Leica, they are certainly available. It sounds like you have decided that you want something new. If you get an older camera, be prepared to have it cleaned-lubed-adjusted (CLA'd). A good user condition M2 or M3 with a CLA will cost ~$900.
BTW: There is a Leica MP for sale here in our 35mm classified section. (Not by me). You may look it over, the difference in cost between it and one from a dealer will pay for a used 50mm F2 Summicron.
If you do not mind an older, used Leica, they are certainly available. It sounds like you have decided that you want something new. If you get an older camera, be prepared to have it cleaned-lubed-adjusted (CLA'd). A good user condition M2 or M3 with a CLA will cost ~$900.
BTW: There is a Leica MP for sale here in our 35mm classified section. (Not by me). You may look it over, the difference in cost between it and one from a dealer will pay for a used 50mm F2 Summicron.
S
Socke
Guest
As we're in fancy HTML and the caribbean holliday has been mentioned allready.
get anything and the holliday!
get anything and the holliday!
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Sorry to be somewhat negative, but... Would you buy a Red Ferrari to learn driving? I mean, you were riding a bike before, of course...maybe even a motorbike... Even more, you might be a pilot... but never drove a car!
I would suggest you take it easier and begin with something cheaper to see if you like to use a rangefinder. True that a leica can be sold without serious loss... if you find a great deal on a user piece that will work as it should and you can keep it in that state.
It's your $$$$, i know...but there are four digits involved in front of the decimal dot.
I would suggest you take it easier and begin with something cheaper to see if you like to use a rangefinder. True that a leica can be sold without serious loss... if you find a great deal on a user piece that will work as it should and you can keep it in that state.
It's your $$$$, i know...but there are four digits involved in front of the decimal dot.
M
merciful
Guest
Pherdinand said:
Dead right. I ran a few rolls through a Canonet and knew Leica was the way to go, but I'm glad I did it that way.
im not selling my mp anymore. I have decided to just keep everything I have and not bother with anymore new stuff.
peter_n
Veteran
I think you can buy a Leica as a first RF camera. My first (and so far only) RF camera is an M6. A Leica will give you a nicer experience than a very inexpensive camera, but if you don't like it why you can sell it for whatever you paid for it.
Glad to hear that, Jorge! A very rational decision. You've had the best, and you've got the best.
I agree, peter_n... My first RF camera (not counting an RF-less Regula) long ago was an M2 with 35 'cron. It joined my other camera at the time, a newish Spotmatic. I still have both, and use them.
But people are different. I am a very cautions and careful shopper, working hard to construct a purchasing rationale that will withstand critical scrutiny. I argue the pros and cons with myself, read reviews, examine representative photos. I think about what contribution to my efforts the new gear will make.
Others are more experimental, wanting to try out the gear before making a real committment, if any. Or just enjoying learning and using different stuff, selling and buying fairly often. This person has the advantage of a varied experience, but it's expensive.
But people are different. I am a very cautions and careful shopper, working hard to construct a purchasing rationale that will withstand critical scrutiny. I argue the pros and cons with myself, read reviews, examine representative photos. I think about what contribution to my efforts the new gear will make.
Others are more experimental, wanting to try out the gear before making a real committment, if any. Or just enjoying learning and using different stuff, selling and buying fairly often. This person has the advantage of a varied experience, but it's expensive.
R
robhar
Guest
Hey Thorsten,
Welcome! You don't ride a SR500 do you? (Saw another Thorsten on that list today...) Well if you did, you would be happiest with the MP without a doubt. (The Yamaha SR500 is a kick-start only single cylinder motorcycle that first arrived on the scene in 1978, and quit production only a couple years ago--classic, elemental, simple, nimble.) I'm very happy with my MP--and my SR500. The MP was my third rangefinder, after an Olympus XA and then a Voigtlander Vitessa. (And yes, Stephen Gandy's CameraQuest web site is a fantastic place to learn.) There are times I wish I had gone with the M7, but those moments are rare. Either way you won't be disappointed.
-Rob in Seattle
Welcome! You don't ride a SR500 do you? (Saw another Thorsten on that list today...) Well if you did, you would be happiest with the MP without a doubt. (The Yamaha SR500 is a kick-start only single cylinder motorcycle that first arrived on the scene in 1978, and quit production only a couple years ago--classic, elemental, simple, nimble.) I'm very happy with my MP--and my SR500.
The MP was my third rangefinder, after an Olympus XA and then a Voigtlander Vitessa. (And yes, Stephen Gandy's CameraQuest web site is a fantastic place to learn.) There are times I wish I had gone with the M7, but those moments are rare. Either way you won't be disappointed. -Rob in Seattle
impact07
Mayor McCheese
I have an MP and I have to say that it is a BEAUTIFUL beast. I love it, it is perfect... FOR ME. That being said, spending that kind of cash without being sure about a rangefinder is madness. Try a few out. Canonets, Yashicas, the Russians, whatever. There is something to love in all of them. For me, the first time a picked up a Leica, an M7, I was sold. I still love to shoot with all kinds of cameras, but my MP is special. My other 6 rf's are jealous.