Flash for M9 (for fill-in)

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flyalf

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Hi,

Anyone with advice on a inexpensive flash for M9? I intend to use this as a fill-in flash for quite static indoor photography balancing the outdoor light (with camera on tripod). I assume that a flash with Auto will do, i.e. that I choose aperture and program that into flash. I will use the flash with diffuser / reflector or similar, so perhaps a zoom / tilt head will be a good option? The flash should ideally cover up to 18mm.

I have looked at the Leica SF 58, but its quite expensive, and Im not sure if I will use the eTTL, in particular since its not possible to adjust exposure.

All help appreciated.
 
With a focal plane shutter you want as powerful a flash as you can get if you intend to use it outside. Example full sun; ISO 100 shooting at 1/125 at f16 you will want the auto setting for ISO 100 to be f8. If you will use fill flash just indoors you will be able to balance ambient light with a less powerful flash. I use a Minolta 320x for outdoors when I'm trying to beat the sun or fill flash. Indoors I use a smaller Vivitar 2800-d. Both are readily available on Ebay and I don't think I spent more than $25 for any of the five that I have.

With a diffuser you may want to think about something like the Minolta as you will lose at least a stop with the diffuser. The M9 will be nice because you will be able to see you shots in real time. Also, many people want to look like a pro with a light stand and radio triggers, but I like to use the hotshoe when using fill flash (although I break that rule sometimes).

I find the auto f stop I want to use and then set the flash for that. Then I set the camera aperture to 2 stops closed from the auto f stop. And finally adjust the shutter speed to the ambient light.
 
I've used a Leica sf24d with a nikon sc-17 off camera cord. The contacts on the sc-17 are in the right places so that the TTL metering is maintained. The SF24D comes with a diffuser that will give coverage up to 24mm. This is a small, light weight way to have fill flash available and to be able to use it off camera. I use this set up with my M7 and suspect it will work equally well with a M9. It's pretty powerfull for a small unit. The maximum distance at f2.8 and 100 ISO without the diffuser and using a 35mm lens is rated at 42 feet and it actually works that far.
 
How anyone can trust TTL anything these days is beyond me. Considering how easy it is to use digital, why not just shoot in manual? Then you can use just about any flash. My recommendation would be to use the NIKON SB-800 (discontinued) for it's size and power, combined with an off shoe cord. Thats what I use on my M9, and now using a Pocket Wizard TT1 and TT5 connected to the flash.
 
leicashot said:
How anyone can trust TTL anything these days is beyond me. Considering how easy it is to use digital, why not just shoot in manual? Then you can use just about any flash. My recommendation would be to use the NIKON SB-800 (discontinued) for it's size and power, combined with an off shoe cord. Thats what I use on my M9, and now using a Pocket Wizard TT1 and TT5 connected to the flash.
Click to expand...

He is right about digital being used as flash meter. I generally use manual with digital and no flash meter, and manual with film and a flash meter. But if you are at the beach or a party; auto is very much easier. Plus with fill you can be off many stops and still get something. TTL and/or auto is really not all that consistent.
 
leicashot said:
How anyone can trust TTL anything these days is beyond me. Considering how easy it is to use digital, why not just shoot in manual? Then you can use just about any flash. My recommendation would be to use the NIKON SB-800 (discontinued) for it's size and power, combined with an off shoe cord. Thats what I use on my M9, and now using a Pocket Wizard TT1 and TT5 connected to the flash.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

I shoot a lot with flash. The trick to make it look more natural is to use several flashes and slaves that triggers them. With my Canon 1Ds III I use three 550EX placed around the room and a ST-E2 Speedlight Transmitter on the camera.

But I get the same effect using two 20 years old Vivitar 283 triggered with old fashioned slaves and a small/cheap flash (Unimat B24TAC - bought on a fleemarket) on the M9.

For both cameras I use most often 'manual'. I try out different settings which I check on the lcd before starting the serious shooting. That simple. The excellent Leica glass comes to it's righ with flash photography. The high contrast comes to it's right. Most Leica shooters prefer hand held natural light settings. But they should try to develop techniques that makes their flash photography look more natural, - and proffessional. The trick is to use several flashes and slaves.

Try having one or several flashes pointing towards the camera and/or reflected in the ceiling.
 
SF24D works fine on my M9. Also have a third party off-camera chord.

Don't really use this setup very often at all though.
 
TTL flash was nice with film, but it does not work with digital - and has no real substitute. Pre-flash (which is what "digital TTL" really is) is the technology that made that most point-and-shoot shots miss the decisive moment. It will nail the exposure and can be extended to complex multi-flash set-ups, but these are about the only positive things to be said about it. It is a pretty safe bet if you are into collecting grimaces, but apart from that, digital TTL is only good for dead or otherwise inanimate subjects.

Your digital flash pictures will improve considerably if you get a "digital incompatible" cheap outdated flash, disable auto ISO on the camera and shoot the flash on manual or external sensor automatic.
 
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Vivitar 283 set to underexpose, tell it 4.0 and shoot at 8 on camera.

Put it on a tripod and make two exposures, one for shadow, one for highlight. Combine in PS with a luminosity mask.
Very good tutorial on TheLightsRight.com Digital darkroom tab, pick blended exposure.

Photomerge in CS. You need not make it look like a cartoon, but you can make it look very natural.

Reflector card, white.
 
I dunno about you all, but I use TTL all the time with my Nikon DSLRs. It's fast, it's accurate and the off camera abilities are crazy awesome.
 
Thanks for all the help to all, also to the one not quoted below :)!

@ Olsen and sevo:

I normally don't use flash, but for a small planned project I will photograph the indoors of some old buildings. Normally there will be no persons present. I also for want to document the outside of some of these buildings in the same photo, and thus want to be able to "balance" light outdoor with flash indoor.

I expect to have some time for each shoot for set up etc, and no persons present in the picture, so the issue about time lag for preflash for TTL is not a problem. But even then, your proposals on going manual seems the best option.

For most of these buildings the option to use ceiling as reflector will not do because of old timber or similar construction, so my initial idea was to use one or more flashes with diffusers or reflectors.

I assume that the setup with Vivitar 283 or similar triggered with old fashioned slaves only involves slaves to trigger the flash, and that both (all) flashes are adjusted manually?

Btw; are there any old flashes with in-built slaves? From my old analog photo days I still have two Cobra Flasmates. These are basically small non-adjustable flashes with built in slave triggers to use as fill-in. IPerhaps I can use these. Hmm, looks like some experimenting is due.

@ Ronald M.

Im not using PS, only LR 3.3. I have good intentions to try the Zero Noise SW/technique. Please note that I dont know your proposal, nor the ZeroNoise, and that I dont want to start a discussion on these in this thread:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=17775.0


Olsen said:
I agree with this.

I shoot a lot with flash. The trick to make it look more natural is to use several flashes and slaves that triggers them. With my Canon 1Ds III I use three 550EX placed around the room and a ST-E2 Speedlight Transmitter on the camera.

But I get the same effect using two 20 years old Vivitar 283 triggered with old fashioned slaves and a small/cheap flash (Unimat B24TAC - bought on a fleemarket) on the M9.

For both cameras I use most often 'manual'. I try out different settings which I check on the lcd before starting the serious shooting. That simple. The excellent Leica glass comes to it's righ with flash photography. The high contrast comes to it's right. Most Leica shooters prefer hand held natural light settings. But they should try to develop techniques that makes their flash photography look more natural, - and proffessional. The trick is to use several flashes and slaves.

Try having one or several flashes pointing towards the camera and/or reflected in the ceiling.
Click to expand...


sevo said:
TTL flash was nice with film, but it does not work with digital - and has no real substitute. Pre-flash (which is what "digital TTL" really is) is the technology that made that most point-and-shoot shots miss the decisive moment. It will nail the exposure and can be extended to complex multi-flash set-ups, but these are about the only positive things to be said about it. It is a pretty safe bet if you are into collecting grimaces, but apart from that, digital TTL is only good for dead or otherwise inanimate subjects.

Your digital flash pictures will improve considerably if you get a "digital incompatible" cheap outdated flash, disable auto ISO on the camera and shoot the flash on manual or external sensor automatic.
Click to expand...


Ronald M said:
Vivitar 283 set to underexpose, tell it 4.0 and shoot at 8 on camera.

Put it on a tripod and make two exposures, one for shadow, one for highlight. Combine in PS with a luminosity mask.
Very good tutorial on TheLightsRight.com Digital darkroom tab, pick blended exposure.

Photomerge in CS. You need not make it look like a cartoon, but you can make it look very natural.

Reflector card, white.
Click to expand...
 
On my Leica M6 and M8, I shoot with available light. However, when in an absolute pinch, I can turn to my emergency flash I keep in my camera bag:

attachment.php


It's cheap, it works and it's small.
 

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flyalf said:
...
Btw; are there any old flashes with in-built slaves?
...[/url]
Click to expand...

Yes. Regula Variant 742-2SCA - bouncing/turnable main-flash and a detachable slave. I´ve still one from old days, still working.

Are you really sure that a little flash is what you need? You hardly get controlled light this way. Thought about HDR?
 
phototektour said:
Yes. Regula Variant 742-2SCA - bouncing/turnable main-flash and a detachable slave. I´ve still one from old days, still working.

Are you really sure that a little flash is what you need? You hardly get controlled light this way. Thought about HDR?
Click to expand...

Thanks,

No, I think I prefer a larger (old) inexpensive flash, or alternatively additional slave triggered.

HDR is not an option. Id rather have fun with initial photo set-up than behind PC afterwards. No offense intended. :)
 
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