mrmeadows
Established
I recently broke down and purchased a Leica M(240). As others have related, I justified the considerable expense by telling myself that my (well used) cameras are my only extravagance and that life is short, so go for it. I have found that this camera is so vastly better than the M8 that I have used for these past six years that I don't regret my decision ... not a even for a minute. None-the-less, new issues or questions have arisen regarding some new features, and I'd like to know, in particular, how one of those features of the M(240) compares with the similar feature in other camera systems.
I recently started using a 135mm Tele-Elmar that I've had for some years but which I did not find to be useful on the M8 and so didn't use since I purchased it. When I put it on the M(240), I sometimes use the live view on the LCD monitor of the M(240) to nail the focus. I quickly learned that hand-holding (I dislike using tripods, and my kind of photography rarely needs one) the 135 often involved so much unsteadiness that the image was moving too much for the red-line focusing aid that appears at high contrast edges to work effectively. Instead, the red-line edges often never appear at any focus setting. In the best of times, they flash on and then off again so fast that they are an unreliable guide. Since the M(240) can't utilize image stabilizatioin in any 3rd party lenses that are used via adapters, it is therefore not possible to reliably use the red-line focus aid with them either. Thus the M(240) seems to be at a disadvantage in the hand-held use of any long focal lengths, despite being able to mount them.
So my question is the following: Do other camera systems which have red-line focusing in the monitor or EVF (or white-line or whatever color) and which systems also have image stabilization, do they exhibit this same problem? I could imagine the result with such camera systems could go either way. The operative variables would seem to be the comparison between 1) the EVF update rate, 2) the speed of the contrast detect auto-focus, 3) the response speed of the image stabilization and 4) the amount of instability of pointing due to body motion/sway/shaking. Given these variables, the answer may well be very different for different systems, as the result will likely be determined by each system's detailed design, and every system will presumably fail to work adequately at some combination of long focal length and hand-held instability. Note, too, that this problem is independent of the shutter speed for the ultimate exposure, so that a fast shutter speed that will suppress image blurring will still be susceptible to this focusing problem.
What sytem(s) have you used? Have you experienced this problem with the system(s), or does it seem immune to it? What focal lengths have you used that lead to your experience?
--- Mike
I recently started using a 135mm Tele-Elmar that I've had for some years but which I did not find to be useful on the M8 and so didn't use since I purchased it. When I put it on the M(240), I sometimes use the live view on the LCD monitor of the M(240) to nail the focus. I quickly learned that hand-holding (I dislike using tripods, and my kind of photography rarely needs one) the 135 often involved so much unsteadiness that the image was moving too much for the red-line focusing aid that appears at high contrast edges to work effectively. Instead, the red-line edges often never appear at any focus setting. In the best of times, they flash on and then off again so fast that they are an unreliable guide. Since the M(240) can't utilize image stabilizatioin in any 3rd party lenses that are used via adapters, it is therefore not possible to reliably use the red-line focus aid with them either. Thus the M(240) seems to be at a disadvantage in the hand-held use of any long focal lengths, despite being able to mount them.
So my question is the following: Do other camera systems which have red-line focusing in the monitor or EVF (or white-line or whatever color) and which systems also have image stabilization, do they exhibit this same problem? I could imagine the result with such camera systems could go either way. The operative variables would seem to be the comparison between 1) the EVF update rate, 2) the speed of the contrast detect auto-focus, 3) the response speed of the image stabilization and 4) the amount of instability of pointing due to body motion/sway/shaking. Given these variables, the answer may well be very different for different systems, as the result will likely be determined by each system's detailed design, and every system will presumably fail to work adequately at some combination of long focal length and hand-held instability. Note, too, that this problem is independent of the shutter speed for the ultimate exposure, so that a fast shutter speed that will suppress image blurring will still be susceptible to this focusing problem.
What sytem(s) have you used? Have you experienced this problem with the system(s), or does it seem immune to it? What focal lengths have you used that lead to your experience?
--- Mike
YYV_146
Well-known
Hi Mike,
First of all I suspect that this is in the wrong section...but the mods will figure that out.
The red lines is called "focus peaking" and it is a standard method for using manual lenses on mirrorless cameras in general. For peaking to really work the refresh rate of the screen/ viewfinder must be good enough, and its resolution high enough for the lines to properly indicate the in-focus area.
Your issue with the M240 is probably because the M240's LCD is not particularly high-res or has a good refresh rate. The entire peaking thing on the M looks like an afterthought - and the main reason I chose not to buy the camera.
The 135 is probably better served by a Sony A7 series camera, which retains the focal length (200 equivalent is really too long for manual focus in general ) and has a vastly better EVF. I can track moving subjects with 90mm lenses using my A7, and regularly work with a 135mm lens when doing portraits.
Sony A7 and the 135mm F2.8 STF. Nailing the bee was a bit tricky, though...
First of all I suspect that this is in the wrong section...but the mods will figure that out.
The red lines is called "focus peaking" and it is a standard method for using manual lenses on mirrorless cameras in general. For peaking to really work the refresh rate of the screen/ viewfinder must be good enough, and its resolution high enough for the lines to properly indicate the in-focus area.
Your issue with the M240 is probably because the M240's LCD is not particularly high-res or has a good refresh rate. The entire peaking thing on the M looks like an afterthought - and the main reason I chose not to buy the camera.
The 135 is probably better served by a Sony A7 series camera, which retains the focal length (200 equivalent is really too long for manual focus in general ) and has a vastly better EVF. I can track moving subjects with 90mm lenses using my A7, and regularly work with a 135mm lens when doing portraits.
Sony A7 and the 135mm F2.8 STF. Nailing the bee was a bit tricky, though...
segedi
RFicianado
You might want to try a couple things:
Focus first with the RF and then fine tune with the Live View, or better, the EVF
Make sure your lens is wide open, achieve focus and then stop down if you want greater DOF. It' such easier to get peaking with a wide open lens as the contrast in focus vs OOF is greater.
Use an EVF instead of the live view as you'll naturally be steadier
Use the 5x magnification, 10x seems to not be as useful. And no magnification is difficult as well.
I'm using the Olympus VF-2 with the M 240 and it's made the 75mm Summicron an even better lens. Focus is so easy now. And framing with a 25mm or less is great too. I never thought I would use the EVF as much, but liking the 75mm, it's a must.
Focus first with the RF and then fine tune with the Live View, or better, the EVF
Make sure your lens is wide open, achieve focus and then stop down if you want greater DOF. It' such easier to get peaking with a wide open lens as the contrast in focus vs OOF is greater.
Use an EVF instead of the live view as you'll naturally be steadier
Use the 5x magnification, 10x seems to not be as useful. And no magnification is difficult as well.
I'm using the Olympus VF-2 with the M 240 and it's made the 75mm Summicron an even better lens. Focus is so easy now. And framing with a 25mm or less is great too. I never thought I would use the EVF as much, but liking the 75mm, it's a must.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
FWIW, I am very happily focusing a medium telephoto for portraits using focus peaking (50mm lens on Sony NEX-5n and A600 cameras). Mostly with the normal view, and for static subjects and lots of time, sometimes with the magnified view.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I've found the same thing. Initially the EVF was going to be for the odd occasion where I felt it was necessary but I now find myself using it in preference to the optical finder because of the accuracy. Particularly when using my C Sonnar because that thing is a bitch for focus shift.
willie_901
Veteran
I quickly learned that hand-holding (I dislike using tripods, and my kind of photography rarely needs one) the 135 often involved so much unsteadiness that the image was moving too much for the red-line focusing aid that appears at high contrast edges to work effectively. Instead, the red-line edges often never appear at any focus setting. In the best of times, they flash on and then off again so fast that they are an unreliable guide.
If the 135 mm lens is the only one with this behavior, then the EVF system is not designed to handle this focal length.
The external EVF was originally designed for the X2 and might be just a re-branded Olympus EVF. This a fairly old technology. Perhaps Leica will update the EVF in the future.
If the 135 mm lens is the only one with this behavior, then the EVF system is not designed to handle this focal length.
The external EVF was originally designed for the X2 and might be just a re-branded Olympus EVF. This a fairly old technology. Perhaps Leica will update the EVF in the future.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Thread moved to digital Leica Forum M8/M9/M10 (akaM240).
f16sunshine
Moderator
Adapted Mid to longer Tele Manual Focus lenses on EVF Cameras are a comprimise at best in my experience so far.
I use the Fuji Cameras and have recently added a longer focal length that has IS.
During a recent shoot I still focused manually in the EVF and the system worked flawlessly.
Image stabilization was very useful after focus was achieved.
The M240 is a special camera but when the EVF or Live view on the LCD is used it's really just another EVF camera.
Even with the experience I describe above, I still prefer Reflex Cameras for longer focal lengths.
It's the really truly live view in the optical finder combined with, the added balance in use from the mass of a DSLR camera that makes using larger lenses more successful.
I use the Fuji Cameras and have recently added a longer focal length that has IS.
During a recent shoot I still focused manually in the EVF and the system worked flawlessly.
Image stabilization was very useful after focus was achieved.
The M240 is a special camera but when the EVF or Live view on the LCD is used it's really just another EVF camera.
Even with the experience I describe above, I still prefer Reflex Cameras for longer focal lengths.
It's the really truly live view in the optical finder combined with, the added balance in use from the mass of a DSLR camera that makes using larger lenses more successful.