Fomapan 200 problems

[tho60]

Dear Buddies,

I have shot a test roll of Fomapan 200 at box speed, then I developed the film with Fomadon R09 1:200, 40 minutes, stand developing. The results were disappointing: very weak, , almost invisible, soft negatives.

So I repeated the experiment, again at box speed and with Fomadon R09, but dilution was 1:50, 10 minutes, 20 Celsius- as the manual suggests. Very little improvement.:bang:

I suspect that Fomapan 200 has much less speed than its nominal speed, about 60-100 ASA, and/or it cannot be developed with Fomadon R09 properly.

I am eager for knowing your opinion and experience.

Thank you very much, Thomas

 

[znapper]

I usually shot it at 100 and get normal negatives with HC-100 dilution B.

Sounds to me that your Fomadon R09 is dying (have you done a clip-test with another film brand?).

 

[Uncle Bill]

I usually shoot Fomapan 200 around 100-125 ISO and I get great results.

 

[Nokton48]

Foma Classic 200 is working for me when I rate it at 100. Perhaps even adding a little more exposure. This is a very old emulsion formula, I am liking the results. 🙂 I'm using three-year old replenished "seasoned" Microdol-X straight and I go for a very long development time. 22 minutes at 18C Haven't tried other developers.

 

[tho60]

I usually shot it at 100 and get normal negatives with HC-100 dilution B.

Sounds to me that your Fomadon R09 is dying (have you done a clip-test with another film brand?).

Yes, you might be right. I opened the bottle in March. However, I do not know the clip-test.

 

[Fotohuis]

FP200 E.I. 125 (but N+1) in Fomadon R09:

Fomadon R09 is a formulation of the Calbe R09 (Rodinal) receipt. You can keep it for around 4-5 years before it can fail.

 

[tho60]

FP200 E.I. 125 (but N+1) in Fomadon R09:

Fomadon R09 is a formulation of the Calbe R09 (Rodinal) receipt. You can keep it for around 4-5 years before it can fail.

If I shot this filma as ASA 100, should I shorten the developing times accordingly? Or I shoot this film as if it were an ASA 100 film, but I develop as an ASA 200 film?

What does FP200 E.I. 125 (but N+1) mean?

 

[Fotohuis]

The minimum volume of concentrate should be 10ml for each 135-36 or 120 roll film, at least officially. But under 5,5ml you are loosing reproducibility due to the fact the success is depending on the amount Black or White area in your negative. The regular dilution for R09/Rodinal is 1+50. (See also above examples). The Fomapan Creative 200 changed in emulsion around 2012 due to the fact an ingredient was not available anymore. After 8 months Foma found an alternative but the speed of this film was 1/3F stop less then previous versions of the film.
It is a very special film: Hexagonal and Cubical Silver parts are in this film. For Foma an attempt for making a kind of Tgrain type film. This FP200 is also more soft in emulsion so you have to take care to prevent scratches when handling FP200.

 

[Johnmcd]

I have shot quite a bit of Foma 200 now (see other thread). I expose at 200 and develop with Fomadol LQN. With this combination it is full speed in my opinion.

 

[Cocal]

2014♣129 by ruggero ranzani, su Flickr
Leica M6, Voigtlander Color Skopar 35 f/2,5 MC; Fomapan 200, Adox Adonal (1:100) 60', 20°C. Scan from negative film.

 

[Fotohuis]

The regular speed in R09 for this film is iso 100. N+1 means a lack of contrast in the zone system so you are going to UNDERexpose 1/3F stop (hence iso 125), EXPAND. And you are going to develop the film a little bit longer. N-1 is COMPRESS, then you are going to OVERexpose the film (1/3F stop) and shorten the development a bit.

N+1 or N+2 situation e.g. in fog area. N-1 or N-2 e.g. High bright sunny weather. It is coming from the Zone System of Ansel Adams. In 35mm you have to make the choice for the whole film, or when having a RF camera put a small sticker on the film surface (lens off, cable release lock and shutter on "B" ) when changing of type exposure.
When developing you feel the sticker when loading on a reel. Cut the film and the second part in another reel and developing tank. In this way you can even optimize your film development according the zone system in 35mm photography.

 

[Fotohuis]

I expose at 200 and develop with Fomadol LQN. With this combination it is full speed in my opinion.

See: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/en/fomapan-200

Which is NOT the case. You can see it yourself on the published data sheet from Foma for this FP200 film. Gamma=0,6 iso=160.
You can reach iso 200 only with a two bath speed enhancing type developer like Diafine.
Even in Microphen (Stock, 1+0) a real speed enhancing type developer you can reach just a bit more then iso 160 with this FP200 film.

 

[Fotohuis]

I can recommend Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27 with this film. Expose on iso 160.

FP200 in Xtol. Zorki + Jupiter-8.

 

[jamin-b]

I shoot both 120 and 35mm rated at 160 for Rodinal or HC-110 (both using 4ml per roll and semi stand development) or 200-250 with diafine, and am generally quite pleased.

 

[Fotohuis]

*Be sure to use at least 6 mL of syrup per 135-36 or 120 roll of film, even if this requires you to put more than the usual amount of liquid in the tank.

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

 

[sevo]

Similar constraints are valid for Xtol. By Kodak specs it has a replenishment volume of 90ml stock/roll - and the minimum for one shot processing is a bit higher than the replenishment volume. Recommendations for one-shot processing with Xtol 1+3 range between 100-150ml stock, so you need at least 400ml Xtol 1+3 per roll (supposedly 600ml for T-Max), if you do not want to extend processing times and alter the developer properties.

 

[znapper]

Yes, you might be right. I opened the bottle in March. However, I do not know the clip-test.

You could try some of the things mentioned here:

Basically you put a piece of film-leader in a small cup of developer while the light is on, to see if it turns black(ish) or not (within a reasonable time)

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/21167-developer-activity-test.html

 

[Johnmcd]

See: http://foma-cz.cs4.cstech.cz/en/fomapan-200

Which is NOT the case. You can see it yourself on the published data sheet from Foma for this FP200 film. Gamma=0,6 iso=160.
You can reach iso 200 only with a two bath speed enhancing type developer like Diafine.
Even in Microphen (Stock, 1+0) a real speed enhancing type developer you can reach just a bit more then iso 160 with this FP200 film.

Hi Fotohuis,

I am a little confused. You yourself stated in a previous post,

'Microphen and LQN are together with Diafine the only developers for which you can reach (almost) iso 200 with FP200.'

I use LQN and it seems fine at 200 iso. Not trying to 'split-hairs' here, but I will try 160 iso perhaps.

Cheers - John

 

[sevo]

I use LQN and it seems fine at 200 iso. Not trying to 'split-hairs' here, but I will try 160 iso perhaps.

It is not that easy to test a film for ISO if you don't own a transmission densitometer, and it is even likely that you prefer the results at 200 to those at 160 even though a proper test would give it a 160. Many films perform quite well when under- or overexposed, some even better than at box speed. For example no ultra-fast film ever got past a proper ISO 1000-1200, but they are (or were) labelled and marketed for their one or two stop underexposed speed.

 

[Fotohuis]

I am a little confused. You yourself stated in a previous post,

'Microphen and LQN are together with Diafine the only developers for which you can reach (almost) iso 200 with FP200.'

I use LQN and it seems fine at 200 iso. Not trying to 'split-hairs' here, but I will try 160 iso perhaps.

Indeed, almost iso 200. If you look at the FP200 graphs and take the Gamma=0,6 go up in the line for iso you can read iso 160. Of course you can develop a little bit longer, Gamma=0,7 and you will end at Microphen Gamma=0,6 and read somewhere between iso 160-200. For condensor enlargers normally Gamma=0,55 for diffusion or combined diffusion enlargers Gamma=0,65.

These curves you can make with a densitometer and from the Gamma read the DIN/ISO speed of the film.

For most common developers you have pretty acurate data but when doing e.g. Windisch W665, an Ultra Fine Grain type developer invented during WWII and based on ortho- Phenylene Diamine, very popular at that time like other para- Phenylene Diamine (this version is more poisoning and terrible staining on everything it will touch or in contact). With these type developers you have to expose around iso 80 to get a good curve and shadow seperation.

FP200 in W665 1+0 for 9:45 minutes at 20C.

W665 you have to rippening for the first time (half a piece of old film) and then can re-use the developer without further re-generation but only extend the time a little bit.
With this ortho- Phenylene Diamine developer you will reach neglectible grain with this film. It is a 35mm example.

Talking about densitometers:

TRDZ densitometer from Heiland electronic. The same for that Split Grade unit.