For AE Konica Hexar RF or Minolta CLE or Zeiss Ikon

[nasmformyzombie]

I've been thinking about a backup body for my M5. I prefer a body with auto exposure for quicker snaps. For an AE body, there are three less expensive options compared with the M7, which I cannot afford.

Hexar RF:
Pros: Full size body, integrated motor drive.
Cons: It's a paperweight if the circuit board goes bad.

Minolta CLE:
Pros: Least expensive option.
Cons: No AE lock. Non-standard frame lines. It's a paperweight if it fails, correct?

Zeiss Ikon ZM:
Pros: Full size body, superior viewfinder.
Cons: Most expensive option, probably too expensive. Does anyone repair these now?

Please no suggestions to buy a Bessa anything. Ugly, ugly, ugly and discontinued as well.

My other thought is a non-metered body, and that would be an M4-2. I prefer it to the M4-P because the M4-P has a more cluttered viewfinder with the extra frame lines. Lastly, I just got rid of a Canon P because I can't see the 35mm frame lines. I use a Canon LTM 35mm f/2 as my standard 35mm focal length.

I know this is heresy, but except for the M5 I do not care for chrome Leicas, so the M2, M3 and M4 are out. Great cameras, but black repaints of these will be too expensive.

 

[splitimageview]

Don't worry about circuit board failures, just acquire a good clean copy that has not been abused. I've owned several Hexars and CLEs and never had a failure, but all of them were well-cared for their entire lives.

Hexar has 1/4000, handy for shooting at wider apertures. CLE tops out at 1/1000, ZM at 1/2000.

 

[sepiareverb]

I'd agree on not worrying, get a Hexar or Ikon as they're newer than a CLE, and replace if it dies should you still want to. If you like the M5 the CLE is going to seem really really tiny and fiddly in the hand.

 

[Huss]

As a user of the M5, CLE, M4-2 (and others..)
If u want AE, then the CLE is great. If you are comfortable with 28/40/90 frame lines, the CLE is great. It's 28mm frame lines are better than in any other M mount camera I have tried. It's kinda designed for the 28mm lens (or seems to be).
The CLE is crazy smooth mechanically - the film advance and rewind are smoother than any of my Leicas. The only electrical issues I've seen with them is the jumping leds, but that's from dirt getting under the shutter speed dial (happens after all these years). Ususally it can be remedied just by exercising that dial, as most of the time is it not used (as it is in AE setting).
The CLE is tiny in comparison to the M5, and even other Ms. But that adds to its charm, and still is very nice to use.
For mechanical RFs, the M4-2 is really flippin nice. I picked it over the M4-P, like you, because of the frame lines.
Ikon ZM? A decent one is about $900-$1K now. I dunno man, when I'm spending that kinda dough I'm buying any sort of Leica. So sue me.
😉

 

[SaveKodak]

I love both the Hexar and the ZI. I would OWN a ZI except that they're difficult to work on for a home user as compared to an M4 or similar. My friend owns and loves the Hexar. I would say it really comes down to the motor drive experience vs the manual crank. 🙂

 

[splitimageview]

I've owned all of them.

Hexar is what I have now.

 

[hap]

Completely agree with Huss. Have both M5 and CLE...as well as M4-P. Fantastic finder in CLE and very easy to operate in AE. It's not a killer to do without AEL. It does have very easy to implement EV -/+.

Must be a west coast thing.
Hap

 

[Doug]

Oddly enough, I have all three of these... Hexar RF in both chrome and black, two CLE, and one chrome Zeiss Ikon.

They're all good, but I have a special fondness for the CLE. I bought one new in 1982 and used it intensively for college photo classes, with the 40 Rokkor "glued" on. Outstanding versatile rig! I liked it so much I later bought a used second one. My repair tech guy told me the components on the circuit board(s) are all discrete off-the-shelf elements (no custom parts) that theoretically could be replaced individually if one could figure out which item had failed! Electrically similar to contemporary Minolta SLRs, as possible parts donor...

The CLE is so compact and inoffensive looking, quiet, easy handling... Yes, there is no metering in manual, so just note what the meter sets in auto and switch to manual. Yes, there is no AE lock, but somehow that's never been a problem either! It is particularly smart with electronic flash, able to quench the flash in real time on the basis of metering off the film during exposure. Similarly it can change the exposure as needed if the light suddenly changes during longer non-flash exposures on auto. Like the Zeiss Ikon, film rewind is on the bottom.

Oh, one maintenance matter of note... At some point you may see the viewfinder diodes at left flickering crazily. Not to panic, this signifies dirt has gotten under the shutter speed dial and is interfering with the electrical contacts there. An experienced tech can easily lift off the dial and clean underneath for a full recovery.

I have less usage-time with the Zeiss camera. Great large viewfinder of course, though missing both 75 and 90mm frames in favor of the 85mm frame. Bottom rewind like the M5. Mine has been reliable and smooth-running.

The Konica Hexar RF is an interesting camera with some unique features. First, the built-in motor both advances and rewinds the film automatically, and aids in loading, very nice feature. Essentially identical to the Contax G1/G2 in this respect. 1/4000 shutter! The viewfinder/rangefinder windows are positioned the same as an M Leica, so Leica lenses with "goggles" fit and work normally. Like the CLE, the viewfinder has a 0.6x magnification, great choice for seeing 28mm framelines easily!

The chrome finish is unusual, only on the Limited Edition. My note on this:
At the 2001 PMA show at Orlando Florida, Konica showed off the new, limited edition Hexar RF Limited. Apparently only 2001 of these will be made and they all come with an "interesting" 50mm ƒ1.2 M-Hexanon lens. N.B. the only way you can buy this lens is by buying the limited edition camera! For a photo of the camera with quasi-Noctilux, see p.60 of US Popular Photography Magazine, May 2001, (vol.65 No.5).

My Limited has run smoothly and reliably. The black one was dropped on a bottom corner knocking the RF patch askew. Precision Camera fixed this fine and even pounded out the dent, but then it had to go back for a film transport problem. Ended up ok, though, so not the fault of the camera! There was an early-on controversy with this model over focusing accuracy having to do with flange-to-film-plane register difference from Leica standards. Konica addressed this problem later I believe. Just something to be aware of, that can be adjusted if necessary (hasn't been, for me).

May your choice be a happy one!

 

[nasmformyzombie]

I once owned a Hexar RF for a brief time, but this was just prior to buying an M7 in 2002 or 2003. I much preferred the M7, so I sold the Hexar before I used it very much. I found the viewfinder of the Hexar a bit difficult as it seemed that my eye had to be perfectly positioned to use the camera properly. The motor drive noise was annoying, but that's likely because it reminded me of the detestible Contax G2 which I owned prior to the Hexar RF---these cameras do seem to share some components. Great Zeiss glass but lousy auto-focus.

The Hexar is probably OK for now as long as I don't make a direct comparison with the M7.

 

[splitimageview]

The supposed Hexar focus issue shouldn't taint any discussion of these fine cameras; Dante Stella has an interesting blog post about it. Personally I don't think it was a real issue.

All these cameras have features that will be the favorite of individual shooters.

 

[splitimageview]

M6s and M7s also require correct eye position unless the MP viewfinder is installed, and even then...

If only one could buy an M7 for Hexar-money. 🙂

 

[nasmformyzombie]

...If only one could buy an M7 for Hexar-money. 🙂

If that were true I would own two M7 bodies!

 

[agfa100]

When I shot film it was a M-5 and a Hexar RF, I still have both they feel very close to use at the same time. I never had any issues with my Hexar it was a late model.

 

[nasmformyzombie]

I just purchased a Hexar RF from Japan. Should be here within a week.

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm convinced, at least for now. 🙄

 

[splitimageview]

Good luck and good choice!

A friend of mine just received his Hexar RF from an Japanese ebay seller, it arrived in essentially new condition. Japanese ebay sellers are top notch.