For all the Leica vs. Bessa People . . .

[marknyc]

There is a good deal of existential angst on this board comparing Bessas to Leicas and worrying about the former's inferiority (minor inferority, in my opinion, but . . . oh wait, the whole point of this post is to stop those comparisons).

Anyway, here's the cure. Start shooting large format.

Once you do that, 35mm negatives, irrespective of their provenance, seem inherently inferior in quality to your 4x5 negs, so you stop worrying about the minor differences in quality and start appreciating your Bessa for what it is -- a really nice, handy-sized alternative to lugging your backpack filling LF equipment everywhere you go, that produces really quite great 35mm shots at an equipment cost that won't result in too much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the event of loss or breakage. (Oh, and it doesn't take 10 to 15 minutes to set up, focus and expose a shot.)

My 2 cents . . .

🙂

-- Mark

 

[FrankS]

You are correct about the 4x5 (not to mention MF) superiority (sharpness, detail, tonality) over any 35mm negative. I think though that there are not many folks here at RFF that are gnashing their teeth in existential angst comparing Bessas to Leicas. We are quite an eclectic and inclusive group. 🙂 There are exceptions of course, and a few do like to "stir the pot."

 

[tetrisattack]

Hah! I was thinking about this just last night... this whole sharpness thing is made moot by just shooting with a larger format. I think Frank Granovski, for example, should just get a graflex and be done with it.

I'm working on this documentary about the death of the family farm in a particular region of my state (stuff's in my gallery) and I surprised myself, I thought I'd be working mostly with rangefinders. But the project evolved and when I made the decision to put everything on 11x14" paper, I realized that neither my Leica nor my Bessa shots were really adequate for the fine-art type prints I wanted to make. The negatives I had made with my crown graphic and baby mamiya were far more suitable for that job.

That being said, I do feel somewhat traitorous, uploading all this SLR/view camera stuff into my gallery, but sometimes it's all about the right tool for the job. And I can't really handhold my mamiya at anything slower than 1/250th, so the rangefinders still come out for the token people shots.

The attached shots all from last weekend with my mamiya 645e, haven't had enough time to get to the sheet film yet.

 

[doubs43]

A nice "compromise" between size and weight and a larger negative is a Rollei..... Cord or Flex. The 6x6 negative will allow excellent 11x14 prints and not be a burden to carry.

Or a 6x7 RF with interchangeable lenses. Larger and heavier but still not LF heavy and much handier.

Walker

 

[FrankS]

Mamiya 6 is sweet, and a RF! 🙂

 

[danielnorton]

ummmm

ummmm

....Anyway, here's the cure. Start shooting large format.

Once you do that, 35mm negatives, irrespective of their provenance, seem inherently inferior in quality to your 4x5 negs, ....

To play Devil's advocate, based on the above quote, I would think ANY improvement in sharpness would mean a great deal. Since you are starting with an "inferior" product do to size (vs 4x5) you would need the absolutely best and sharpest lens to make the prints even in the same ball park of the large format negs.

:angel:

Of course, I'm not one of those who is making comparisons (I love my bessa) as the Leica glass I seek is the old stuff that has a soft kinda "glow' to it, not the super sharp new stuff.

best

Daniel

 

[dcsang]

I really should shoot my blad more ... 🙁

Dave

 

[wlewisiii]

I can't wait for things to warm up a bit. I just can't get myself out and setting the Speed Graphic when there's snow on the gound.

William

 

[FrankS]

To play Devil's advocate, based on the above quote, I would think ANY improvement in sharpness would mean a great deal. Since you are starting with an "inferior" product do to size (vs 4x5) you would need the absolutely best and sharpest lens to make the prints even in the same ball park of the large format negs.

35mm, even with the best, sharpest, ASPH lenses, is still not in the same ballpark as MF or LF if you value sharpness, detail and tonality over portability, or handheld low light shooting. Each has it's strengths and limitations.

 

[sf]

There is a good deal of existential angst on this board comparing Bessas to Leicas and worrying about the former's inferiority (minor inferority, in my opinion, but . . . oh wait, the whole point of this post is to stop those comparisons).

Anyway, here's the cure. Start shooting large format.

Once you do that, 35mm negatives, irrespective of their provenance, seem inherently inferior in quality to your 4x5 negs, so you stop worrying about the minor differences in quality and start appreciating your Bessa for what it is -- a really nice, handy-sized alternative to lugging your backpack filling LF equipment everywhere you go, that produces really quite great 35mm shots at an equipment cost that won't result in too much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the event of loss or breakage. (Oh, and it doesn't take 10 to 15 minutes to set up, focus and expose a shot.)

My 2 cents . . .

🙂

-- Mark

Yup- I'll agree with that. I am in image quality maniac, and once went through the Leica vs Voigtlander thing. I thought, darn, I can't afford a Leica, so I'll just buy an R3A. It was a great camera. But, then I came to the realization that medium format would blow even a Leica away. . . so I bought my RF645 kit with two lenses for less than the cost of a used M6 body. Now, I have a camera that is only slightly larger than an M3 + old chrome summicron, and actually smaller than my D70 + 50mm. Now that i have something that nothing 35mn can touch, I am able to appreciate compactness, and own a Konica C35 which is pretty sketchy, but a great little pocket camera with its fast lens.

 

[peterc]

There is a good deal of existential angst on this board comparing Bessas to Leicas and worrying about the former's inferiority...

Unless we're all shooting Pan F (developed in Microphen), using a tripod, under ideal conditions, I doubt any differences in sharpness would be found. Lenses may be able to resolve 200+ lp/mm but you'll be lucky to better than 100 lp/mm on film in 35mm unless everything (including ambient temperature, film flatness, humitidty) is ideal.

Peter

 

[rich815]

Unless we're all shooting Pan F (developed in Microphen), using a tripod, under ideal conditions, I doubt any differences in sharpness would be found.

Peter

Completely, 100% correct. These sharpness discussions are ludicrous.

 

[FrankS]

Rather than sharpness, I'm much more interested in the vintage look older lenses produce. Clinical sharpness is boring.

 

[peterc]

Clinical sharpness is boring.

I'd have to agree. Sharpness is for still life, architecture and document copying. And if a 35mm is your camera of choice for any of those, you're not really serious.

Peter

 

[FrankS]

Oh, can I use that, Peter? I want to post on Pnet to see what they say.

 

[FrankS]

Rather than sharpness, I'm much more interested in the vintage look older lenses produce. Clinical sharpness is boring. Sharpness is for still life, architecture and document copying. And if a 35mm is your camera of choice for any of those, you're not really serious.

 

[RML]

I prefer my Bessa over my M2, not because its built is "inferior" but simply because I find I shoot better and more confident with the Bessa. And it has an internal meter.

MF and LF are not for me. I shoot digital mostly and I can't afford a DMR.

 

[Dave H]

My photographic world seems to of clarified in the last year and am basically coming to conclusions of things I really knew already. The main one being that all this magic bullet chasing is a terrible affliction to have, whether it be camera bodies, lens, film, developer or film format. I've taken enough "good"pictures, (IMHO) with all sorts of equipment and film now to stop chopping and chasing and just start shooting.

Yes, I love my Leicas and I know my Bronica could punch the filter ring right off my Summicrons, but it lays for the most part unused. Just to know its there wagging its little cable release and tripod bush is enough to keep my sharpness apreciation tendancies in check, and clip the Leica round the ear every so often.

 

[back alley]

hcb had it right.

 

[peterc]

Oh, can I use that, Peter? I want to post on Pnet to see what they say.

Go for it Frank. 😀

Peter