Frank Petronio
Well-known
I do both, I usually want a slow, formal, large film camera and a fast, light digital, one lens each. I've used everything from a GRDII to 8x10, I like the challenge of adapting. I change to something totally different every three to six months. Sometimes I get hardcore and have nothing but a Leica 35mm or a Nikon DSLR for a spell.
It helps prevent Alzheimer's, I hope.
And it is just fun, it's not a lot of money usually and I can trade-swap and mostly break even with my gear. Heck it makes more sense to pick up a bargain Leica than to put your money in a short-term CD these days, if you shop carefully you can still make 10-15% interest ;-)
The large format images have semi-accurate film borders (I do them in Photoshop, I crop and cheat) and the smaller format/digital just have a simple black border, no fake film.
If I were absolutely practical I'd get a Nikon D90-300-7000 with the 35/1.8 AFS DX, that is probably the best bang for the buck. But I've already had that combo a couple of times now. I might well do it again since the D7000 seems pretty nice at high ISO and isn't too big. I will probably end up with the Fuji XF100 eventually too but you guys can Beta test it and sell me yours for half price next Summer, thanks.
I should probably search out a Pany G2 or GH2 to see how "improved" they are. IMHO the G1 is a great camera with significant handling flaws... and Panasonic made them worse in later versions! But I really like the EVF being nearsighted, I don't need my reading glasses with it, unlike most other cameras.
I also am investigating the Sony A55 because it has an EVF with no mirror black out (pellicle)... but I'd like to hear how dirty it gets and which Sony lenses are OK?
I've used an M8 and like it, the issue is whether I really want to tie $2500-$3500 into it with a decent lens. I hate having too expensive stuff and I keep coming back to the fact that the M8 files don't look ~that~ much better than my old Nikon D80 files, (which now sells for $300 used).
There is actually a perverse side that says to buy a $200 Nikon D70s and shoot the Hell out of it.... I have old files from one mixed in with everything else and they are indistinguishable from the other DSLR images in my 11x14 print portfolio.
Usually the digital and large format are so different that you get very different kinds of images. Digital and 35mm are a little too close and scanning is a pain, whereas scanning 4x5 is much easier and more forgiving (to get a good file). But if I can force myself to put the digital down (or sell it) then I like shooting 35mm again.
What little work I do, the clients aren't hiring me for general purpose commercial photography so I can use my choice and people know I use old, funky cameras.... Although showing up with only a GRD2 puts people off when they are paying me a lot of money, so I try to have a little common sense sometimes. In the old days I had to have 3-4 lenses for 35mm, 120, and 4x5 systems, plus a lot of lights, for general work.
It helps prevent Alzheimer's, I hope.
And it is just fun, it's not a lot of money usually and I can trade-swap and mostly break even with my gear. Heck it makes more sense to pick up a bargain Leica than to put your money in a short-term CD these days, if you shop carefully you can still make 10-15% interest ;-)
The large format images have semi-accurate film borders (I do them in Photoshop, I crop and cheat) and the smaller format/digital just have a simple black border, no fake film.
If I were absolutely practical I'd get a Nikon D90-300-7000 with the 35/1.8 AFS DX, that is probably the best bang for the buck. But I've already had that combo a couple of times now. I might well do it again since the D7000 seems pretty nice at high ISO and isn't too big. I will probably end up with the Fuji XF100 eventually too but you guys can Beta test it and sell me yours for half price next Summer, thanks.
I should probably search out a Pany G2 or GH2 to see how "improved" they are. IMHO the G1 is a great camera with significant handling flaws... and Panasonic made them worse in later versions! But I really like the EVF being nearsighted, I don't need my reading glasses with it, unlike most other cameras.
I also am investigating the Sony A55 because it has an EVF with no mirror black out (pellicle)... but I'd like to hear how dirty it gets and which Sony lenses are OK?
I've used an M8 and like it, the issue is whether I really want to tie $2500-$3500 into it with a decent lens. I hate having too expensive stuff and I keep coming back to the fact that the M8 files don't look ~that~ much better than my old Nikon D80 files, (which now sells for $300 used).
There is actually a perverse side that says to buy a $200 Nikon D70s and shoot the Hell out of it.... I have old files from one mixed in with everything else and they are indistinguishable from the other DSLR images in my 11x14 print portfolio.
Usually the digital and large format are so different that you get very different kinds of images. Digital and 35mm are a little too close and scanning is a pain, whereas scanning 4x5 is much easier and more forgiving (to get a good file). But if I can force myself to put the digital down (or sell it) then I like shooting 35mm again.
What little work I do, the clients aren't hiring me for general purpose commercial photography so I can use my choice and people know I use old, funky cameras.... Although showing up with only a GRD2 puts people off when they are paying me a lot of money, so I try to have a little common sense sometimes. In the old days I had to have 3-4 lenses for 35mm, 120, and 4x5 systems, plus a lot of lights, for general work.
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Jim Evidon
Jim
Frankly, I think it is insane even to include the Fuji in a poll. it is not out yet and there are no competent opinions on it. Fuji builds a nice camera but why are so many people voting for it? According to the poll results, as many people like the unavailable Fuji as like the M8.
Is this a vote of no confidence in the M8 or merely wishful thinking about the Fuji?
Is this a vote of no confidence in the M8 or merely wishful thinking about the Fuji?
axiom
Non-Registered User
Ouch!
I voted Fuji by mistake!
I thought it was X100 instead of F100
I voted Fuji by mistake!
I thought it was X100 instead of F100
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
You must have been REALLY confused, even your X100 vs F100 remark is the wrong way round
EDIT: no wait, that was Franks mistake to begin with, it really says Fuji F100 in the poll
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Frank Petronio
Well-known
No I meant the Z100!
Arvay
Obscurant
M8 + Canon 50/1.2
The Fuji represents hope. We "hope" for the best.
Jim Evidon
Jim
According to DP review, the Fuji X100 has a non-interchangeable lens, no rangefinder, and is primarily auto focus with manual focus capability if you have a sharp enough eye and if the focusing screen (presumably either an EVF or LCD) has very high resolution.
I have a lovely Panasonic GF1 which has this manual focusing feature and you have to be very careful even with the screen magnification. The GF1, incidentally, auto focuses with the Panny lenses but takes all the M lenses with the adapter, albeit, with manual focus only.
On the positive side, the Fuji X100 looks a lot like the Contax G2 which I owned and loved except for the slow and noisy autofocus which, hopefully Fuji has cured. However, the Contax did have interchangeable Zeiss lenses made by Cosina under Zeiss quality control. Fuji is no slouch when it comes to glass, but it no Zeiss or Leica.
It does not look as versatile as the M, unless you absolutely need auto focus. Frankly, the features of the GF1 look superior even though it is 4/3's format and not full frame.
Even so, my 13x19 prints from it come out razor sharp.
I have a lovely Panasonic GF1 which has this manual focusing feature and you have to be very careful even with the screen magnification. The GF1, incidentally, auto focuses with the Panny lenses but takes all the M lenses with the adapter, albeit, with manual focus only.
On the positive side, the Fuji X100 looks a lot like the Contax G2 which I owned and loved except for the slow and noisy autofocus which, hopefully Fuji has cured. However, the Contax did have interchangeable Zeiss lenses made by Cosina under Zeiss quality control. Fuji is no slouch when it comes to glass, but it no Zeiss or Leica.
It does not look as versatile as the M, unless you absolutely need auto focus. Frankly, the features of the GF1 look superior even though it is 4/3's format and not full frame.
Even so, my 13x19 prints from it come out razor sharp.
cidereye
Film Freak
Well if you want something in the 35-40mm range then surely you need to be looking for a 28mm if you choose an M8 with it's crop factor?
Going to be expensive to get an f/2 unless you go the Voigtlander route where the 28mm f/2 recommended above is probably the best option. I'm guessing an Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 is not going to be good enough for low light for your needs.
Fuji X100 doesn't even exist yet so how can so many people be so sure it's a great camera? Now that one really does baffle me on this and other forums. LOL It may be great, it might not. It could be a complete lemon, *who really knows* until it is launched and tested?
Going to be expensive to get an f/2 unless you go the Voigtlander route where the 28mm f/2 recommended above is probably the best option. I'm guessing an Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 is not going to be good enough for low light for your needs.
Fuji X100 doesn't even exist yet so how can so many people be so sure it's a great camera? Now that one really does baffle me on this and other forums. LOL
It may be great, it might not. It could be a complete lemon, *who really knows* until it is launched and tested?
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Funny, the idea of a D700 with a 35/2 AF-Nikkor occurred to me also. I also thought of the D300 with the 28/2.8 AIS--a great lens with 42mm equivalent on the D300. The D300 could also be paired with the 24/2.8 Nikkor, for a 36mm equivalent. All these ideas would be within Frank's desired range of angles of view. And they are a lot more camera with a lot more versatility than an X1, X100, etc.
I've got a D300 with the lenses I've mentioned, and others. Every time I think about an M8 or M8.2, I realize that I can do a lot more with my D300. I believe I would get a D700 before springing for an M8.2 or M8. The Nikons are bulkier, but so far that hasn't hindered me much. I don't think it would hinder Frank for the kinds of shots he takes.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I've pretty much discounted the M8 unless I make a windfall, as I would want an expensive Leica lens to go with it, I kind of hate most VC glass after having some wobbling experiences.
Yeah I've used a D300 w the 35DX, the D70 and D80 with the 24 and 50, etc., D2X, D60, etc. for years... I am quite promiscuous w cameras. The only camera I won't try is a Canon.
At this point I'm just going to plug along with my current gear and will try the Fuji once it gets settled out this Summer. I'm a little skeptical of the viewfinder being the super perfect thing they claim.
I've also been itching to see just how slow the X1 really is, as I am not usually shooting sports or cats I might be able to deal with it. It certainly has the best files of any compact to date and I really like the UI much better than any other brand.
If I get a chance to try a Pany GH2 I'd like to see how much better the high ISO files are than my lowly G1? The Pany does have nice color....
I'm also shooting w a GRD to experience NOISE haha and like it, along with the UI. So maybe I should look at their APS compacts but they are so $$$ and they must have a fixation on the 28mm focal length....
And I have a fleet of Sytlii and my 4x5 Crown in use and a Kodak Medalist II coming back from Ken Ruth after a four month spa treatment....
Yeah I've used a D300 w the 35DX, the D70 and D80 with the 24 and 50, etc., D2X, D60, etc. for years... I am quite promiscuous w cameras. The only camera I won't try is a Canon.
At this point I'm just going to plug along with my current gear and will try the Fuji once it gets settled out this Summer. I'm a little skeptical of the viewfinder being the super perfect thing they claim.
I've also been itching to see just how slow the X1 really is, as I am not usually shooting sports or cats I might be able to deal with it. It certainly has the best files of any compact to date and I really like the UI much better than any other brand.
If I get a chance to try a Pany GH2 I'd like to see how much better the high ISO files are than my lowly G1? The Pany does have nice color....
I'm also shooting w a GRD to experience NOISE haha and like it, along with the UI. So maybe I should look at their APS compacts but they are so $$$ and they must have a fixation on the 28mm focal length....
And I have a fleet of Sytlii and my 4x5 Crown in use and a Kodak Medalist II coming back from Ken Ruth after a four month spa treatment....
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robklurfield
eclipse
The results of this poll are puzzling to me so far. More people are recommending a camera no one has actually had a chance to use yet -- the X100. Why not recommend an M10?
Anyway, Frank could probably make a beautiful image using a bong, some gaffers tape and a 35-year old pack of Polaroid emulsion. Therefore, I'll recommend whatever he buy for least amount of money since it hardly makes any difference what he uses. It all looks good when he's done no matter the gear.
Anyway, Frank could probably make a beautiful image using a bong, some gaffers tape and a 35-year old pack of Polaroid emulsion. Therefore, I'll recommend whatever he buy for least amount of money since it hardly makes any difference what he uses. It all looks good when he's done no matter the gear.
robert blu
quiet photographer
Frank says: "I've also been itching to see just how slow the X1 really is, as I am not usually shooting sports or cats I might be able to deal with it"
As a new owner of an X1, I was worried about the slow autofocus. But after a few days I see I can do with it. I think that most of experienced photographer can deal with its "slow speed" and of course I assume you should have no problems. Shooting models who are not changing place you can use manual focus to catch the moment. If they walk you can prefocus on where they will be a second later. There many option that you can use.
Is this camera worth the price? This is a different question and I think the anwser is very subjective !
Just my two cents, ciao
robert
As a new owner of an X1, I was worried about the slow autofocus. But after a few days I see I can do with it. I think that most of experienced photographer can deal with its "slow speed" and of course I assume you should have no problems. Shooting models who are not changing place you can use manual focus to catch the moment. If they walk you can prefocus on where they will be a second later. There many option that you can use.
Is this camera worth the price? This is a different question and I think the anwser is very subjective !
Just my two cents, ciao
robert
GSNfan
Well-known
There is an M8 in really decent condition for $1777 in the classified section of this forum. I believe that is cheaper than X1.
But I would wait for X100, until then there is always film or other digital cameras.
But I would wait for X100, until then there is always film or other digital cameras.
Jim Evidon
Jim
While I doubt that the Fuji X100 will satisfy the Leica user as a backup camera, you who feel other wise may wish to view this link:
http://inx.myfinepix.com/html_mail.jsp?params=294205+alfajim%40dc.rr.com+0+o40q00gt000004u7
http://inx.myfinepix.com/html_mail.jsp?params=294205+alfajim%40dc.rr.com+0+o40q00gt000004u7
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I know, I am surprised that M8 is still for sale at that price! He's a trusted seller too.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I know, the M8 very well could become the back-up.
It's funny how fast this changes. Two years ago the Pany G1 lit the world on fire, now it seems hopelessly outdated ;-)
It's funny how fast this changes. Two years ago the Pany G1 lit the world on fire, now it seems hopelessly outdated ;-)
Jim Evidon
Jim
I'm actually hoping the Fuji makes my M8.2 my back-up camera...
The Fuji X100 has a fixed lens. If you want to do all your shooting at a "normal" focal length,that is fine. But why would you want to use it as your prime camera and relegate your M8 or any M to a backup? The only thing that I see in the X100 is very good looks. But a serious replacement to the M8? Never.
bacchus
Newbie
You say that the GXR is big bucks but you would be interested in buying an X1???