For Those Who Think Kodak Has Given Up

Digital is certainly NOT cheaper if you want full-frame (i.e. good DOF control). Compare the price of a Leica M6 and a metric shedload of film to a Leica M9. Then consider how long the M9 will still be serviceable, with its fiddly motor, incredibly expensive CCD and electronics.

I'm not saying the M9 isn't any good, just that it's not a cheap option even if you factor in the lack of film and processing. On the plus side, you'd probably want two film bodies if you shoot colour and b/w, which closes the gap a little.
 
rogerzilla said:
Digital is certainly NOT cheaper if you want full-frame (i.e. good DOF control). Compare the price of a Leica M6 and a metric shedload of film to a Leica M9. Then consider how long the M9 will still be serviceable, with its fiddly motor, incredibly expensive CCD and electronics.

I'm not saying the M9 isn't any good, just that it's not a cheap option even if you factor in the lack of film and processing. On the plus side, you'd probably want two film bodies if you shoot colour and b/w, which closes the gap a little.
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Depends on how much film you shoot. Start with $7000. Subtract a good but reasonably cheap M at $1000. That's &6000. Charge film @ $10/roll (processed), which is unusually cheap = 600 rolls. Two rolls/week = 300 weeks = 5-6 years.

Okay, there is plenty of latitude in all these guesstimstes, but I've chosen VERY low film figures.

Cheers,

R.
 
photogdave said:
That's my whole point. Kodak is actively promoting the use of film.
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I don't know if that could be considered actively promoting film use for the general public. I can't recall the last time I saw an ad on TV promoting film so I would think film manufacturers have given up on the general public as a customer base. If you look at the other sections in the link such as customers and world wide advertising you realize they are trying to keep their base in film and TV production. Makes me wonder how much a year they are loosing in those segments.

Bob
 
Personally I can't think why both Kodak and Fuji had not been heavily promoting film to the general public, Kind of seems to me that they both wanted lose out to digital cameras, or did not beleive that they would. When you consider that the general public started dropping film for 2mp compact digicams Kodak and Fuji seemed to just sit back and let it happen.
 
Hmmm, we don't know what they are doing about film outside of English speaking countries and that's mainly Australia, New Zealand, North America and Europe to judge by the members of these forums.

They could have a huge but growing market in China (where a lot of Leicas end up in collections) for all I know.

Regards, David
 
Film is still the preferred medium for big budget cinema. even with the Epic Red hype, Epic is more aimed at indie and small budget films.
 
Call me cynical but I don't see much difference between propaganda and marketing these days. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Bob
 
David Hughes said:
Hmmm, we don't know what they are doing about film outside of English speaking countries and that's mainly Australia, New Zealand, North America and Europe to judge by the members of these forums.

They could have a huge but growing market in China (where a lot of Leicas end up in collections) for all I know.

Regards, David
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Good point.

For what's my (VERY limited) experience, I have contacts in Algeria, Venezuela, Indonesia, Uzbekistan, Russia etc yet all those I know talk about mobile phone cameras and digital p/s. Film is totally unknown to them. Although I bet that in some remote supermarket of Central Asia Kodak Gold is still being sold (as it's here in big department stores, sometimes it's even expired), I'm not sure who's going to purchase it.
In general, I suspect that Kodak is selling low (and always lower) cheap film there, with probably the exception of China and (maybe) India - don't forget they have Bollywood. China might be a great opportunity or a total failure depending on how things will evolve in the next 10 yrs, maybe less, so Kodak should play at its best there.

For our countries, I guess high quality films like Portra (and maybe classics like Tri-X and others) are those who record a higher sale trend. It's due to the fact that both "connoisseurs" (like we are, more or less) and "amateurs" (at school and colleges) are their main user base.

Despite imperating digital, I'm assuming things for Kodak will be better in the next, short-term, future, although I couldn't say "how much" better, yet I think the bottom point has already been reached and overcome. Once people could afford digital cameras, then some of them decided to come back to film for whatever reasons. Digital is still the main option but didn't kill film. Not yet and not in the moment it could do that.

My esteem is that in the future - if no other major troubles happen - a second negative wave for film might be in the next 10-15 yrs when there will be a solid DIGITAL user base which won't have ANY idea of what film is. It's when our kids, become adults, will have kids themselves without having had any film experience in the past, only mobile phones and p/s or whatever comes next.

Yet, until I can, I'll continue supporting film not because of a "die hard" philosophy yet because I simply like it how it renders the same image in a different way, whatever "different" means.

Since 2 billion people eat rice daily, it doesn't automatically mean I have to as well, right ?
 
We already know how Kodak has done in China, all you have to do is google the words Kodak and Lucky film.

Bob
 
It's not like Kodak is losing out - it has over 10,000 digital photography patents and supplies sensors used in many digital cameras (e.g., the new Pentax 645D).

The articles in the link are useful to help one discern the tradeoffs between the mediums instead of an all-good or all-bad verdict.
 
Regardless of what medium a film is shot on they ALL has to be converted to film so it can be shown in a cinema.

For now, the film projector is here to stay... There are plans to go digital in movie theatres but this is still years away.
Before they can convert to digital projection it has to match or better a film projector.
No easy task considering the quality of film on the big screen.
 
sc_rufctr said:
Regardless of what medium a film is shot on they ALL has to be converted to film so it can be shown in a cinema.

For now, the film projector is here to stay... There are plans to go digital in movie theatres but this is still years away.
Before they can convert to digital projection it has to match or better a film projector.
No easy task considering the quality of film on the big screen.
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Thats moot as well. because all films, Digital and celluloid are cut and then set through post as digital files. I think around 2003, when editing software started to support 4k resolution, you started to see nearly every film being digitized somewhere along the postproduction workflow. and then making a masterprint back onto film when complete.

Even when a movie is 100% digital, big studios will archive everything onto a film masterprint. it's the only known and stable way to store movies for long term archive. (Actually, I'm going a bit off topic here, but NatGeo still archives a lot of their photos onto 70mm film dupes. This is the only way to be sure that their digital images will last for at least 100+ years).

In my area, the only traditional film projectors left are sitting in the $1 theatres, but they too have started to put in DLP projectors as less and less films are distributed on reels.
 
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We will see how those manufacturers including Kodak, Fuji and others will do within 5-10 years later, i hope within those 5-10 years i can have enough experience with film before if they will carry bad news for film shooters that time [and really i hope they will not give up and do more production about film analog for us], to me if i see that film is getting harder to find or expensive as digital to order/process/...etc then i better stay with digital and never look back, i just started film last year and bought many many film to store them for future, so i will be fine for few years, if i see that i can't get films after those years then i will just run out the available film i have in the fridge and stop film, it is you people who have the power to make film to stay alive, my country is small in photography even for digital [population is not more than 5 millions most of them are foreigners].
 
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