robertdfeinman
Robert Feinman
Microsoft Vista is out and I noticed on the Epson web site that they are not planning to supply new drivers for many fairly recent scanners and printers.
I have two scanners and a printer which are from their "pro" line and are less than five years old. If in the future my PC needs to be replaced these items will all become useless.
I've got cameras that are 50 years old and I can still get film for them. What will happen to all the digital cameras of today (including a couple of high-priced digital rangefinders) when their makers decide not to upgrade their software to match the latest generation of computers.
This is more than planned obsolescence. That term implies bringing out changes a step at a time to promote new purchases. In this case Microsoft is forcing us into replacement purchases of items having nothing to do with their software. This is forced obsolescence.
It seems to me that makers should be required to agree to support their products for a reasonable period of time. This includes software upgrades, spare parts and consumables like special batteries. Their policy should be stated clearly before a purchase so that people know what they are getting in to.
Perhaps some sort of legislation might be considered.
What do you think about the prospects of your new M8 being a door stop in seven or eight years?
I have two scanners and a printer which are from their "pro" line and are less than five years old. If in the future my PC needs to be replaced these items will all become useless.
I've got cameras that are 50 years old and I can still get film for them. What will happen to all the digital cameras of today (including a couple of high-priced digital rangefinders) when their makers decide not to upgrade their software to match the latest generation of computers.
This is more than planned obsolescence. That term implies bringing out changes a step at a time to promote new purchases. In this case Microsoft is forcing us into replacement purchases of items having nothing to do with their software. This is forced obsolescence.
It seems to me that makers should be required to agree to support their products for a reasonable period of time. This includes software upgrades, spare parts and consumables like special batteries. Their policy should be stated clearly before a purchase so that people know what they are getting in to.
Perhaps some sort of legislation might be considered.
What do you think about the prospects of your new M8 being a door stop in seven or eight years?
Topdog1
Well-known
" What do you think about the prospects of your new M8 being a door stop in seven or eight years?"
It will be no matter what. Write your legislator and ask him/her to repeal Moore's Law. Then you'll be able to use it as long as you want.
/Ira
It will be no matter what. Write your legislator and ask him/her to repeal Moore's Law. Then you'll be able to use it as long as you want.
/Ira
MadMan2k
Well-known
Video cameras are digital devices. You can still find VHS tapes and Hi-8, right? The first digital cameras used PCMCIA hard drives, which are still around and you can read them in most laptops. Microdrive came next, and most DSLR's support those, and CF.
Last I heard the JPEG format wasn't going anywhere, and there's nothing saying you can't run a RAW converter on a new OS, or run an older system to convert the files and easily network them and get the files to the new one.
I admit, it can be more trouble than it's worth to get data from 5.25" floppys nowadays, but it can definitely be done 20+ years after the fact. Well, that's assuming the data hasn't degraded...
Devices have always been a risky investment as far as compatibility goes, but the PC industry follows the general trend that most hardware won't be worth using by the time the next generation of OS and hardware are out. High-end printers or film scanners can be an exception, but support is out there...
Last I heard the JPEG format wasn't going anywhere, and there's nothing saying you can't run a RAW converter on a new OS, or run an older system to convert the files and easily network them and get the files to the new one.
I admit, it can be more trouble than it's worth to get data from 5.25" floppys nowadays, but it can definitely be done 20+ years after the fact. Well, that's assuming the data hasn't degraded...
Devices have always been a risky investment as far as compatibility goes, but the PC industry follows the general trend that most hardware won't be worth using by the time the next generation of OS and hardware are out. High-end printers or film scanners can be an exception, but support is out there...
VinceC
Veteran
It's also a real pain in the neck finding repair parts for 20-year-old cars (remember points and carburetors?)
My 11-year-old laptop works as it always has ... slugging its way through Windows 95 with a 486 with 420MB harddrive and a whopping 32Megs of RAM. Has a color screen, but the third battery has worn out and I don't feel like buying another. It has slots that, with an adapter, will accept the CF card from my digital cameras, and even does a passable job editing photos with that old copy of Adobe PhotoDelux that came with an old scanner. And it positively blazes through WordStar 7.0d for DOS, which, by the way, still runs okay on Windows XP. I don't switch on the laptop too often, just keep it plugged in and in suspended mode in a backroom. But a couple of nights ago I needed to pull an old digital photo off it that I took in the Balkans in 1997 with a Kodak NC-2000. The file was a 1.2meg jpeg and was just fine.
Nobody's forcing anyone to upgrade to Vista. What I do is keep an old machine around with the older software and operating system. The laptop is sitting on top of my old 486/133 desktop which is also little used but which stores a lot of my files from the 1990s. When I need it, I plug in a monitor, fire it up, and bask in the glory of Windows 98 Second Edition.
In my day, I also wrote a pretty mean config sys file. Sure glad I don't have to do that anymore.
Attaching the digital pic in question from October 1997.
My 11-year-old laptop works as it always has ... slugging its way through Windows 95 with a 486 with 420MB harddrive and a whopping 32Megs of RAM. Has a color screen, but the third battery has worn out and I don't feel like buying another. It has slots that, with an adapter, will accept the CF card from my digital cameras, and even does a passable job editing photos with that old copy of Adobe PhotoDelux that came with an old scanner. And it positively blazes through WordStar 7.0d for DOS, which, by the way, still runs okay on Windows XP. I don't switch on the laptop too often, just keep it plugged in and in suspended mode in a backroom. But a couple of nights ago I needed to pull an old digital photo off it that I took in the Balkans in 1997 with a Kodak NC-2000. The file was a 1.2meg jpeg and was just fine.
Nobody's forcing anyone to upgrade to Vista. What I do is keep an old machine around with the older software and operating system. The laptop is sitting on top of my old 486/133 desktop which is also little used but which stores a lot of my files from the 1990s. When I need it, I plug in a monitor, fire it up, and bask in the glory of Windows 98 Second Edition.
In my day, I also wrote a pretty mean config sys file. Sure glad I don't have to do that anymore.
Attaching the digital pic in question from October 1997.
Attachments
clintock
Galleryless Gearhead
Maybe epson will support the pro line models on the macintosh, since the mac is based on open (BSD) standards, it will be easy for them.
If you're replacing the computer anyway, and having to re-learn the operating system, may as well get an established one that works.
If you're replacing the computer anyway, and having to re-learn the operating system, may as well get an established one that works.
R
ruben
Guest
robertdfeinman said:
Dear Friend,
Just a kind of guerilla advice from the Middle East. As the years pass by, don't throw subsequent computers to the garbage, but keep them disconnected from the net, and dedicated to the hardware around, and software inside. You may be surprised how long a PC can work if not connected to the internet.
For old PC parts, in case of need, go to the garbage of your neighbour, before the repairman does.
My MMX still biting. My ATX too.
Cheers,
Ruben
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S
Socke
Guest
I use a Canon FS2710 scanner on XP and the newest Canon software is for NT4. It needs Adaptecs ASPI driver which hasn't been updated for 5 years now.
Hamricks VUEscan supports it, not only on Windows but also on Linux!
If you want to use computer equipment for longer than the manufacturer expects ask for open source drivers.
To the M8, as long as you have a working card reader, USB or firewire, you'll be able to copy the files to your computer, a DNG converter should be available for a long time to come since it is as well documented as PDF, if not better.
I can get dcraw to support my Canon D60 on Linux running on non PC hardware but I can't make film.
Hamricks VUEscan supports it, not only on Windows but also on Linux!
If you want to use computer equipment for longer than the manufacturer expects ask for open source drivers.
To the M8, as long as you have a working card reader, USB or firewire, you'll be able to copy the files to your computer, a DNG converter should be available for a long time to come since it is as well documented as PDF, if not better.
I can get dcraw to support my Canon D60 on Linux running on non PC hardware but I can't make film.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Everything I see about Vista pushes me to a Mac. Gates has spent $6B to lose me as a customer!
Athena
Well-known
Trius said:
I know naught about Vista but have yet to understand why it seems necessary to replace XP except to provide a revenue boost to Mr. Softee
I am now maintaining five computers. One runs on the ancient 98, one on ME, two on XP-home and this one on XP-Pro!
I'm just not ready for a new op sys that I cannot understand the need for.
The gas is running out of MS's car. Most folk use their computers for the internet and a few home based office applications. Then there are the gamers etc. - but I don't hang with that crowd anyway.
As to office use. Their concept of the modern office is far and away beyond where most of us work! In my shop, we're just happy if "the system" works!
Criminy, another OS with another "cutie" name.
Why?
Topdog1
Well-known
They'll sell a bundle because they are, well, bundled with all new PCs. 
/Ira
/Ira
POINT OF VIEW
Established
WHow do you know you will be alive in 7 or 8 years?
jody
Broke User
Ive had 95, 98, Me and now XP, all have more problems than the first mac. If I buy again if will be a mac.
Topdog1
Well-known
POINT OF VIEW said:
I have insurance for that, too.
/Ira
sf
Veteran
jody said:
the real macs are dead. The new ones are just as bug-ridden as the windows OS.
I have been a windows person since 3.1, and now am running a Macbook with OS X, and I'd have to say that the OS X is even less stable than any windows system I have worked with, and the shortage of drivers, software, or various decorders has made the mac a real ball and chain.
I remember the old macs - real macs - they were much more stable.
Topdog1
Well-known
Bring back typewriters...bring back film...bring back vinyl records...bring back boob-tube TVs...ah, the good old days!
/Ira
/Ira
mwooten
light user
Topdog1 said:Bring back typewriters...bring back film...bring back vinyl records...bring back boob-tube TVs...ah, the good old days!
But can I keep my tivo?
clintock
Galleryless Gearhead
I've been using osx on my ibook for three years- at least several hours a day, downloading everything, no virus protection at all ever, it has never crashed ever, not even once. I had macs since the SE running os 6 and while os 6 was ok, anything os 7, 8 crashed every session at least once. Os9 finally worked right, and it was good, finally one was stable again..shutterflower said:
My old G4 ppc-based computer is a different beast tho from the macbook- the macbook contains intel, and is still a new design. You can rest assured apple will sort out the intel macs with osx long before microsoft gets around to any fixes for their newest lash-up.
Here we go, got my flame proof suit all zipped up.. Ok I'm ready-- shoot
MikeL
Go Fish
shutterflower said:
This is odd, since my experience and those around me has been the exact opposite. I had system freezes much more often on OS7-9 than I do on OS 10.4. Are you talking about the system or applications run on the system? It's unix underpinnings are pretty darn solid. Pm me what's going on if you'd like since I think something must be wrong with your user or machine.
Topdog1
Well-known
mwooten said:
No. But you can have your old Ampex reel-to-reel video recorder back.
/Ira
charjohncarter
Veteran
I like Ruben's response. You don't have to be connected to the INTERNET to post process photos, print photos, download files from a Sony Mavica circa 1999. In fact, I want to continue to tryout Lightroom from the bloatware company Adobe. If I'm not connected to the INTERNET with my Beta version, it would probably run forever.