Four minty Zorki 4K

Z

zhang xk

Well-known
Local time
10:01 AM
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
853
View My Gallery
Hello guys,

Zorki 4K with engraved speed dials are uncommon. However, I managed to find 4 of them over the years, and the 5th one was grabbed by a guy from my hands.🙁
I have added strap lugs to two of them. Now they are the top line of Zorki cameras with lever winding, full speed range, and a very bright finder. I would be reluctant to trade one with a Leica with bottom film loading. They are all in very clean conditions.

Kind regards

Zhang
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5912.JPG
    IMG_5912.JPG
    87.9 KB · Views: 1
  • IMG_5915.JPG
    IMG_5915.JPG
    87.7 KB · Views: 1
I like those with the earlier covering - the later stuff looks too fussy .
Nice though - my Z 4 is mint , but with ''snake '' covering . I do find these cameras to be a bit too big for me - i like my smaller mint Fed 2b with clip I 22 collapsible .
dee
 
dee said:
I like those with the earlier covering - the later stuff looks too fussy .
Nice though - my Z 4 is mint , but with ''snake '' covering . I do find these cameras to be a bit too big for me - i like my smaller mint Fed 2b with clip I 22 collapsible .
dee
Click to expand...

Fed-2 has a flat bottom plate. A longer rangefinder base, and in various colours. It is my favourite too.🙂 I would rather have both.😀

zhang
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5914.JPG
    IMG_5914.JPG
    120.6 KB · Views: 0
Brian Sweeney said:
I noticed the 50/2 collapsible lens on the Zorki! That looks on the rare side, could you elaborate on it for us?
Click to expand...

Hi,

That is a Fed C(S) 50/2 lens. Not an original Zorki lens.😛
 
Valkir1987 said:
The Fed 2/50 is a very uncommon lense. I'm curious about the image quality, does it perform like the Leitz Summar? Do you have an example picture? 🙂
Click to expand...

Sorry, I never tried it. I think as an uncoated lens, it should be less contrasty, but still very sharp if stopped down?
 
Valkir1987 said:
The Fed 2/50 is a very uncommon lense. I'm curious about the image quality, does it perform like the Leitz Summar? Do you have an example picture? 🙂
Click to expand...
I tried one on a Fed S body but the results were disappointing - I assumed the lens had been collimated to that body but that was wrong - all the pre-war LTM were individually set up for the body on which they were used and therefore mostly not interchangeable. I picked the one that had been coated at some point (the camera case has military marks) but I don't have the patience to try the other two in my collection. I could try to fit it to a post war body (the threads are slightly different) with removable back, collimate and take a few shots but it isn't all that an interesting a lens to me (nor was the Summar) to be worth all the trouble and I might damage the mount in the effort.

MIchael
 
Brian Sweeney said:
I'll have to be on the lookout for these. It looks like a Summar copy.

The Helios-103 and Menopta are essentially the same formula, and very sharp. I was not aware that it had been tried before in FSU lenses.
Click to expand...
They were made for use on the Fed-S which was a Fed with a mximum speed of 1/1000s. Princelle estimates that less than 2,000 were made.

I always thought the Helios was in the Summicron camp not Summar. To tell the truth I never liked the low contrast of the Summar.

I was able to screw the coated one on a Canon 7 so the slop in the thread tolerances seems to work on real LTM cameras. For all I know it has been converted to LTM and collimated to Soviet LTM standards and my attempts to use it on a Fed-S cancelled all these updates. You see The American seller sold the body and lens separately and I assumed they went together. The initial buyer of the lens was in Japan; I contacted him and because he was disappointed with the lens sold it to me.

If you wish to get your hands on one and play just let me know and I'll send it over to you on loan.

Michael
 
outfitter said:
They were made for use on the Fed-S which was a Fed with a mximum speed of 1/1000s. Princelle estimates that less than 2,000 were made.

I always thought the Helios was in the Summicron camp not Summar. To tell the truth I never liked the low contrast of the Summar.


....
Michael
Click to expand...

Some other source estimated that about 20,000 units were made. I tend to believe this figure as they are not that rare. Shanghai 58-1 was made more than 1,000 units, and Nanjing 58-1 was about 2,000. One never saw them for sale.
I feel that the Jupiter-8M for Kiev 4 is sharper than the J-8 for Zorki, although they have the same design. Or maybe they are not optically the same. Helios 103 is a 6E/4G design that is similar to many modern 50mm normal lens.

Zhang
 
zhang xk said:
Some other source estimated that about 20,000 units were made. I tend to believe this figure as they are not that rare. Shanghai 58-1 was made more than 1,000 units, and Nanjing 58-1 was about 2,000. One never saw them for sale.
I feel that the Jupiter-8M for Kiev 4 is sharper than the J-8 for Zorki, although they have the same design. Or maybe they are not optically the same. Helios 103 is a 6E/4G design that is similar to many modern 50mm normal lens.

Zhang
Click to expand...
Well the 20,000 number would coincide with the numbers stamped on my mounts which are 21,xxx, 24,xxx and 28,xxx respectively. Trouble is everything in the Soviet Union was a state secret so that normal hostorical research is all but impossible. Some years ago Fed-S cameras and these lenses showed up regularly on eBay but I haven't noticed one in a few years - haven't really been looking since the prices of pre-war stuff went through the roof.

The J-8M has one less element than the J-8 whatever that means optically. It is possible that the RF on the Kiev is inherently more accurate than the Soviet verson of the LTM.

Michael
 
Trouble is everything in the Soviet Union was a state secret so that normal hostorical research is all but impossible.
Click to expand...
Well, if one is ready to actually do historical research and work with some primary sources, it's not that bad. Firstly, not everything was a state secret, and factory production figures for consumer lenses mostly weren't (they were just not easily accessible to the layperson). Secondly, in Russia they are surprisingly lenient with archive access unless you want to look at KGB or military material - a lot of historians including myself work extensively with Russian and/or Soviet archival material labeled "top secret". 1930s and 1940's factory records shouldn't be too difficult to access once you find where they are.

The problem is IMHO rather that most of us aren't in the position to do actual historical research beyond what's written in the literature on the subject (i.e. Princelle & Co.), and that what we read there is also at least partly based on collector hearsay. If you want to do the photographic world a favour, find a student of East European history and convince them to do a solid, good-old PhD on the history camera industry in the Soviet Union.
 
Didn't mean to imply it was a secret just that the Soviets were secrative - after all the pre-war production was the subject of heavy propaganda and national prestige probably required a certain discretion about actual production numbers. I agree that one of the world largest photo industries requires the services of an historian. In any event too much camera literature is by collectors preoccupied with categorizing minor production variations rather than the important story of research, development and production and the socio-economic significance of the industry.

Michael
 
outfitter said:
Well the 20,000 number would coincide with the numbers stamped on my mounts which are 21,xxx, 24,xxx and 28,xxx respectively. Trouble is everything in the Soviet Union was a state secret so that normal hostorical research is all but impossible. Some years ago Fed-S cameras and these lenses showed up regularly on eBay but I haven't noticed one in a few years - haven't really been looking since the prices of pre-war stuff went through the roof.

The J-8M has one less element than the J-8 whatever that means optically. It is possible that the RF on the Kiev is inherently more accurate than the Soviet verson of the LTM.

Michael
Click to expand...

My Fed S has a S/N 14xxxx, and F2/50 has a S/N 29xxx, and another number 93 on the flange. So the 20,000 number may still be conservative? To my best knowledge, no other Soviet rangefinder cameras was equipped with this lens.


Zhang
 
zhang xk said:
My Fed S has a S/N 14xxxx, and F2/50 has a S/N 29xxx, and another number 93 on the flange. So the 20,000 number may still be conservative?
Click to expand...
Do we know how the FED factory assigned serial numbers?

Philipp
 
rxmd said:
Do we know how the FED factory assigned serial numbers?

Philipp
Click to expand...
The numbers appear to be sequential; at least they correlate with production changes and the evolution of inscriptions. The first number appears to be 31. The Fed-S appear to be regular production Feds taken out of stock and converted. In Fed-S cameras I have the following serial numbers:

65,xxx - YCCP inscription (Princelle shows photo of #59,309 with same markings)
145,xxx - CCCP inscription
172, xxx - CCCP inscription but 1/1000s marked by tick mark but speed number is not engraved - came with coated lens and case markings that I interpret as military.

Does anyone know why 1/1000s was needed given the slow emulsion speeds of the day (I think ASA 80 was the top)? Aerial photography?

Michael
 
zhang xk said:
To my best knowledge, no other Soviet rangefinder cameras was equipped with this lens.


Zhang
Click to expand...
The 50/2 was announced at the same time as the 28mm, the telephoto and the macro lens so it may have been on offer as a separate lens. Then again I don't know to what extent these were actually avaliable. The macro and telephoto (at least the second version) appear common but I haven't seen many wide angles offered for sale on the collectors market - I have one in the original blue paper box.

Michael
 
outfitter said:
The 50/2 was announced at the same time as the 28mm, the telephoto and the macro lens so it may have been on offer as a separate lens. Then again I don't know to what extent these were actually avaliable. The macro and telephoto (at least the second version) appear common but I haven't seen many wide angles offered for sale on the collectors market - I have one in the original blue paper box.

Michael
Click to expand...

I have a very rare Fed Berdsk with a 1/1000 top speed. I think the camera was made for the rare Fed B in the beginning. Body parts are with pounched holes for a slow speed mechanism, but was made do for a slow speedless Fed 1 for lacking of parts during the war. I think Leica already offered a camera with 1/1000 top speed, and the Russians were trying to catch up?

Zhang
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom