Friends and Kievs

[rxmd]

Hi,

today I visited my Armenian friend here who deals in cameras and antiquities to bid him farewell, as I'll be leaving Uzbekistan soon, and on the occasion received a nice little gift from him: a block-letter Kiev in need of some work, serial number 493013 🙂 I had been eyeing the camera for some time, and apparently the fact that I'm leaving has softened his heart a little bit.

It still has the original ever-ready case, which is a little bumpy, but beautifully smooth and soft.

The leatherette peels a little bit at one side and there are some Zeiss bumps, but the chrome is in good shape, and it is a beautiful camera overall.

Some previous owner obviously had problems with the shutter, there is a sticker on top saying "25=10, 10=3", or that the slow speeds are too slow by a factor of three. The shutter is also a little bumpy, meaning that it doesn't always close fully and there are some hangs on rewinding after changing shutter speeds. So someone will have to look at it.... But nevertheless it's a nice gift and will make a beautiful camera once it's been given a little overhaul.

Incidentally, in spite of some of the overall bumpiness the mechanism is smooth as silk. How much Contax is in these old 1949 Kievs?

Philipp

 

[outfitter]

How much Contax is in these old 1949 Kievs?

Nobody can know for certain (especially without a complete strip down).

Prof Sasaki ("Contax to Kiev") concludes of the 49 and 50 Kievs "Kiev-like characteristics throughout the specimens examined with occasional variation".

Nevertheless he also states" One Kiev differs from another. The variation is at random and the serial number does not offer clues to identify any regularity in the variation. A general tendency does nevertheless exist. 47 Kievs are overwhelmingly of Dresden style, while 48 Kievs start to show some Jena note, which grows stronger in 49 Kievs. Kievs of 50 and thereafter follow there own route of evolution."

From that I take it to mean that in 1949 Arsenal was still using up Jena parts or producing parts on Jena tooling but by 1950 the camera basically becomes a Kiev Kiev. The numbers were re-set in 1950 which may indicate a change of manufacturing site or system (eg opening up Arsenal production lines based on Soviet produced machines and tooling).

Michael

 

[varjag]

Cool Philipp, a 1949 Kiev is quite a nice gift! If the lens is original to the camera, it is Schott glass.

 

[shadowfox]

What is or special about Schott glass?

Phillip, where are you going? you're lucky, I wish I have one friend who will give me a Kiev for a parting gift. 😉

 

[varjag]

What is or special about Schott glass?

They were world's leading research and manufacturing optical glass facility prior to WWII. USSR at immediate postwar period did not possess similar level of glass manufacture technology, so it was very valuable acquisition. By 1950s original Schott catalog and technology were matched though, and since then expanded/improved.

While locally produced glass was not any worse, existing designs of Jena origin had to be recomputed in 1954 to account for finer differences in refractive indexes, unavoidable when melting from non-identical sand stocks. Some people wonder if re-computation affected the lens performance, by slipping relaxed norms along way to aid mass production. Hence early Jupiters sometimes command a premium. And of course there is added collector value simply to WWII, Reich and trophy glass involved, and lower overall production numbers.

 

[USSRPhoto]

I believe if you open some of these early models up (probably mostly true to 47s) you can actually see Contax logo still stamped on the inside of the front panel and Kiev on the outside.. quite interesting. Also if you take out and look at the lens, if the rear element has another serial # in addition to the Jupiter serial # on the front, then these are rebranded German lens... If that is so, would you please post both these serial #s in here, there are some people who track these for historical purposes.

Thanks,
Vlad

 

[rxmd]

Phillip, where are you going? you're lucky, I wish I have one friend who will give me a Kiev for a parting gift. 😉

I'm going, or rather have gone, back to Germany. With things looking as they are, I'll be in Central Asia again by mid-October as there were quite a lot of unfinished bits and pieces lying around. I had luck getting the camera through customs; given that it's 58 years old I would have needed an export license for it.

I guess I'll send the Kiev to Kiev in the meantime for an overhaul; I don't feel like using an 1949 model to teach myself Kiev repair skills 🙂

Vlad,

I believe if you open some of these early models up (probably mostly true to 47s) you can actually see Contax logo still stamped on the inside of the front panel and Kiev on the outside.. quite interesting. Also if you take out and look at the lens, if the rear element has another serial # in addition to the Jupiter serial # on the front, then these are rebranded German lens... If that is so, would you please post both these serial #s in here, there are some people who track these for historical purposes.

The origin of the story with Kievs still having Contax stamped on the back of the front plate seems to originate from the 1947 Kiev pictured in Peter Hennig's article on the Kiev Survival Site... I doubt it would still be there in a 1949 Kiev 🙂

The lens is a Jupiter-8, made at Arsenal, serial number 5813741, so it's quite far from being original... and neither Schott glass nor rebranded German lens, in all probability 🙂 Since I intend to use this camera for shooting, however, beautiful as it is, I don't mind if it's not original.

Philipp

 

[jan normandale]

I like the cyrillic text on the front. Mine just read Kiev.

 

[darkkavenger]

Just a thought (it's quite late) .... trying to find the earliest Kiev is like seeking the Holy Graal, or like trying to move back to the original moment of the Big Bang... (just have to go sleep now that I said my nonsense) .. Hope to see this Kiev one day, Philipp! If not in Prague, maybe you'll be coming around Monte-Carlo some day? 😉

 

[outfitter]

if you take out and look at the lens, if the rear element has another serial # in addition to the Jupiter serial # on the front, then these are rebranded German lens... If that is so, would you please post both these serial #s in here, there are some people who track these for historical purposes.

Thanks,
Vlad

This is a strong indication that the mounts are original Zeiss but no one knows if the glass is original Zeiss.

Michael