From M8 to XP1?!

[riceman]

Hi,

I think about a change from Leica M8 to the Fuji XP1.

pro and cons

+
new camera with warranty, if a M8 is broken repairing is very expensive or impossible;
high ISO
video
nice fuji lenses

-
no manual focus
M lenses only with adapter
no Leica feeling (yet I did not see a XP1 in real life, but I can't imagine that it feels like a Leica M, especially the manual focus of Leica is incredible...)


My M8 Equipment ist: 28mm Elmarit asph, 50mm Nokton 1,5

With the XP1 I would start only with 35/1.4;
I would sell the Elmarit too, the Nokton is forever on my M2, and my M2 is forever with me 😉


regards
chris

what are ur thoughts?
who also thinks about switching from M8 to Xp1?

 

[user237428934]

Hi,



+
new camera with warranty, if a M8 is broken repairing is very expensive or impossible;

This is an excuse for gas, isn't it? Imagine your M8 keeps on working without problems for the next 5 years. If it breaks then, you can throw it away without hesititation because it really was worth the money and buy something that is state of the art then. If it breaks now then repairing is still cheaper then replacing all your stuff.

 

[David_Manning]

I think the XP1 will be a better picture-making machine (and a lot more flexible)...but you won't experience the same Leica workflow/feel satisfaction. I'd think it really depends upon why you shoot, how you like shooting, etc.. It won't be necessarily a rangefinder experience.

In my own experience, I thoroughly enjoyed shooting with the M6, loading and winding the film, and the satisfaction of using a precision instrument (the rangefinder experience). But my X100 takes much better pictures due to its flexibility...I wanted a small camera which would provide professional image quality in a faster operating speed.

Does that make any sense?

 

[noimmunity]

no manual focus

FWIW, manual focus on the 35/1.4 on the XP1 is completely usable, but M-like it is not.

no Leica feeling

It has a Fuji feeling.
Seriously, the viewfinder experience is very seductive, and it is way ahead of Leica.

M lenses only with adapter
my M2 is forever with me 😉

Sounds like you already have what you LOVE and you would be so disappointed by what the XP1 isn't that it might seriously prevent you from loving it for what it is.

 

[malthusiantrap]

For me, it is a good decision to sell the M8.
Why not use the XP-1 for the Fuji-feel and the M2 for the Leica-feel? They each have their own strengths and weaknesses: Just pick up the camera that will fit your style more at any given day.

 

[jippiejee]

My M8 Equipment ist: 28mm Elmarit asph, 50mm Nokton 1,5

You'd be crazy to exchange such a nice set with its tack sharp mf focusing for the Fuji slow-ish 'point-n-shoot disguised as rangefinder'. If I owned an xpro1 I'd be so happy if someone was willing the swap it for an M8 with the 28mm elmarit asph. Don't follow the hype, this xpro1 camera will occupy dressers and shelves within a year after a more responsive camera has been released. And its value will drop as rapidly as the X100.

 

[huntjump]

depends. Id say keep both, they can serve very different purposes. You under estimate the IQ of your M8 + M lenses in non-dark settings. x-pro 1 could satisfy all your low light shooting conditions, the m8 all other occasions and times when you want to really shoot a RF

 

[riceman]

This is an excuse for gas, isn't it?

No its not 😉
I do not how long I could trust the electronics of my M8.
At the moment I could sell it for good money. If its totally damaged or needs a repair for 1000$ its a bad situation, now or in 5 years.

You'd be crazy to exchange such a nice set with its tack sharp mf focusing

Maybe.
I also was crazy when I sold my Fuji S5 and my Nikon F lenses for buying the M8 🙄

Id say keep both

Thats the best idea, but no in the budget of a degree student...



What I saw from the XP1 looks very very good.
The main question for me is, will I miss the rangefinder, or will the hybrid finder of the XP1 an adequate replacement?

One more point is, I love the 50mm 1.5 on my M2.
For the M8 its really hard to find a 35mm 1.4 lens as 50mm compensation, which is not too big (Nokton 1.2), no focus shift (Nokton 1.4), not to expensive (Summilux asph), too soft and erratic (Lux pre asph).

The 50mm Nokton on the M8 is for daily work many times a little bit too long, the Elmarit a little bit too slow, the alternatives Ultron 35 2.0, 28 2.0 for the old M8 sensor also too slow, the Leica alternatives are too expensive...
bloody hell, I miss the 50mm 1.4....

Yeah I know, its only me who could decide...
But I only need some opinions from some freaky, anonym rangefinder guys 😉

 

[Keith]

Throw away your IR filters and learn to embrace ISO 6400 .... in other words get the Xpro!

 

[Lss]

The main question for me is, will I miss the rangefinder, or will the hybrid finder of the XP1 an adequate replacement?

Only you can answer that really. I can only say that I would not base such a major change on the possibility that Fuji may someday implement usable MF. Rather consider the XP1 an AF camera and decide if that suits you. If it does, I think the change seems reasonable. If not, keep the Leica.

For the M8 its really hard to find a 35mm 1.4 lens as 50mm compensation, which is not too big (Nokton 1.2), no focus shift (Nokton 1.4)

The 1.4 Nokton has focus shift, but I don't consider it a real-life problem. It should not take a long time to learn to compensate for the shift. It is my most used lens on the M8, and I use all apertures. The only thing is to keep in mind the aperture you use. You would do that anyway, right?

 

[jsrockit]

You'd be crazy to exchange such a nice set with its tack sharp mf focusing for the Fuji slow-ish 'point-n-shoot disguised as rangefinder'. If I owned an xpro1 I'd be so happy if someone was willing the swap it for an M8 with the 28mm elmarit asph. Don't follow the hype, this xpro1 camera will occupy dressers and shelves within a year after a more responsive camera has been released. And its value will drop as rapidly as the X100.

Wow, you are brainwashed huh? I guess you haven't used these new Fujis if you truly think this. 😱

The X100 has dropped to 66%-75% of its market price. The same can be said of used M9s too.

 

[Turtle]

Really, why?

For the sale price of the Elmarit asph and the M8, there would be plenty left over after buying an Xpro-1 + lens to buy the second generation model in 18 months, relegating the Mk I to back up. In the meantime he will enjoy vastly better high ISO and no IR issues. If the rest of the camera works for him, then it makes some sense if these qualities are important to him.

I for one am looking to possibly move over to the X-Pro system for digital-M type work. Sure it is a very different camera, but it works very well for a lot of people. I currently use Leica M film bodies, but am not too confident when it comes to being able to afford a M10 and back up body....

The problem of staying in the M realm is that for many people new bodies are unaffordable and used bodies still cost a fortune to buy (and almost as much to fix). That's a serious issue.

My X100 is sitting on my dresser, you are quite right. In Afghanistan.

You'd be crazy to exchange such a nice set with its tack sharp mf focusing for the Fuji slow-ish 'point-n-shoot disguised as rangefinder'. If I owned an xpro1 I'd be so happy if someone was willing the swap it for an M8 with the 28mm elmarit asph. Don't follow the hype, this xpro1 camera will occupy dressers and shelves within a year after a more responsive camera has been released. And its value will drop as rapidly as the X100.

 

[fireblade]

keep the M8 and buy the X100.

 

[noimmunity]

The main question for me is, will I miss the rangefinder, or will the hybrid finder of the XP1 an adequate replacement?

The Hybrid Finder isn't just an "adequate replacement", it blows the socks off any Leica-type viewfinder, even the ZI. Live histogram and other info right in the OVF, with instant possibilities to change mangnification or toggle over to EVF. Pretty soon people are going to be saying the Leica VF is an "adequate replacement" for the Fuji HVF.

You will miss the manually-engaged rangefinder focus mechanism. But it's not the end of the world, much less the end of photographic satisfaction. The AF on the Fuji is being painted as some uncontrollable prehistoric beast when in fact it is showing itself to me to be fairly predictable, consistent and hence user-controllable. The speed is quick enough; the manual option entirely useable. Having used a LTM Nikkor 85/2 for many years, I really can't fathom the big deal about long focus throw. If David Duncan could do it, so can we! And from what I've seen on blog postings of adapted M lenses, it looks the Fuji XP1 is going to be just as useable as any other mirrorless camera for lenses 28 and above--and probably below that, too, judging by first glimpses.

If I had to choose and could only get one (I have both right here, right now), I would choose the X-Pro1, hands down, no hesitation. You will be able to photograph everything that the M8 does and a heckuva of lot more, but the same cannot be said the other way around.

Yet I am still not sure that this would be the right choice for you.
I think you ought to ditch the M8, no matter what, and just shoot black and white bulk film on your M2 for pleasure and economy. Eventually you will have the chance to use the Fuji, then you can make a decision about whether or not to buy that.

 

[robert blu]

Because of different reasons I'm thinking as well about the new Fuji x1 pro. What is sure I'll take any decision only after having seen and tried one (in my hands). IQ should be ok, size and weight ok, lens ok (and more will arrive). No RF is not really a problem IF the autofocus works well enough for my way to take photos. This is my main concern and the reason for which I need to try one before any decision. And comparing with other possibilities on the market...
robert
PS: the real problem is that is difficult to really test a camera before buying...

 

[noimmunity]

The only thing that is keeping me from selling the M8 this very minute is the fact that it still remains to be seen whether or not Fuji can come up with a wide angle lens that preserves the kind of corner to corner sharpness I consider necessary for landscape photography. The M8 with the ZM 18 or ZM 21 is a very persuasive argument for daylight landscape photography, and I have yet to see evidence that the Fuji can match that (but it is just too early to tell).

 

[jsrockit]

The only thing that is keeping me from selling the M8 this very minute is the fact that it still remains to be seen whether or not Fuji can come up with a wide angle lens that preserves the kind of corner to corner sharpness I consider necessary for landscape photography.

Yes, it appears the 18mm for the Fuji isn't up to par. Hopefully Fuji gets it right with other wide angles.

 

[Lss]

Any idea how it performs with CV15?

 

[Harry Caul]

...this xpro1 camera will occupy dressers and shelves within a year after a more responsive camera has been released.

This is probably true. I went through this with m43. I bought the Olympus E-P2 when it first came out and absolutely love it (still do). However, it was their first gen model. The newest models (E-P3, E-M5) really blow it out of the water in terms of responsiveness, focus speed, processor, etc... only 2+ years later. Even though I still love the image quality of my E-P2, I'm really having to fight the urge to upgrade right now for want of a more responsive camera.

Keep in mind that this is Fuji's first body in what will certainly be more to come (they have publicly stated as much). They will likely not release new bodies as fast as m43 does (7 each and counting from Panny & Oly!!!), but there will definitely be major improvements in the first few generations. As an alternative, you might consider hanging onto your M8 for another year to see how the XPro1 lasts over time and keeps it's value. By next year there will surely be rumors about some of the improvements and, assuming your M8 holds up, you can then choose to wait for the next gen model or pick up a bargain XPro1.

And of course, start a GAS fund. 😀

 

[randomm]

I considered this option too, but to be honest, after the few times that I've tried living with two separate systems, it has really felt awkward: one way of shooting for one system, another for the other one.

I have a feeling that the new Fuji is probably going to be a pretty good camera, but ultimately too much is yet unknown about it for one to be making any kind of decisions about buying one. I bought an M8.2 last week, and I guess in 6 months time I'll be revisiting this thought - maybe... Fly-by-wire lenses are still a big minus in my book.

High ISO? I'm having hard time thinking of situations where I'd need more than 1250/1600 ISO/ASA. But perhaps that's just me. I'm also curious to find out how Fuji's auto focus performs in those situations when 3200 or more ISO is needed (going to be pretty darn dark then!).

For rangefinder shooting, why not use a rangefinder on which you can mount a huge amount of different glass from different manufacturers. Glass that can be used with mirrorless systems too.