marke
Well-known
I returned to shooting film a couple years ago, using mostly Kodak BW400CN. I love this film, as it offers great tones and virtually grainless images. But one reason I started to shoot more traditional B&W last year, and soup my own, was because of the sloppy handling of the lab. I couldn't get one film back where dust or numerous scratches wasn't a problem. I would spend so much cloning in PS just to get an acceptable down-sized image for the web.
So for the past several months, I've been shooting Tri-X and TMZ3200, and getting dust-FREE and scratch-FREE negatives. And I'm no neat freak when it cokes to drying them, so why does my C41 come back so disgustingly filthy? Last week, I shot my first roll of C41 B&W film in several months, and am once again blown away with how beautiful this film can be, when handled correctly. But it wasn't! I've decided I'm going to sit down with my favorite lab technician and have a heart-to-heart talk with her, and see if there is ANYTHING she can do to provide me with clean negatives. But I'm just wondering if anyone has any other advice, or has found a solution to this problem. Are these results just something inherent in the workflow of these labs, that doesn't allow them to provide clean and scratche-free negatives?
So for the past several months, I've been shooting Tri-X and TMZ3200, and getting dust-FREE and scratch-FREE negatives. And I'm no neat freak when it cokes to drying them, so why does my C41 come back so disgustingly filthy? Last week, I shot my first roll of C41 B&W film in several months, and am once again blown away with how beautiful this film can be, when handled correctly. But it wasn't! I've decided I'm going to sit down with my favorite lab technician and have a heart-to-heart talk with her, and see if there is ANYTHING she can do to provide me with clean negatives. But I'm just wondering if anyone has any other advice, or has found a solution to this problem. Are these results just something inherent in the workflow of these labs, that doesn't allow them to provide clean and scratche-free negatives?
navilluspm
Well-known
Hi Mark.
Because of scratched negatives from the lab, I started developing my own C-41. That is the best solution, and it really is not hard at all. Just be aware that the Blix is pretty nasty stuff, so use gloves and keep a bathroom fan going to ventilate.
Another option is the try to new Tmax 400. I think you will be plesantly surprised at how good that film is - and you can develop it yourself!
Because of scratched negatives from the lab, I started developing my own C-41. That is the best solution, and it really is not hard at all. Just be aware that the Blix is pretty nasty stuff, so use gloves and keep a bathroom fan going to ventilate.
Another option is the try to new Tmax 400. I think you will be plesantly surprised at how good that film is - and you can develop it yourself!
outforalaska
Member
I've always wondered a bit about how bad lab conditions have to be to produce dirty negs.
When I started developing at my college I noticed how paranoid I am about minimizing the time negatives are exposed to open air, but haven't had a problem yet, other than the occasional dust spot every other roll or so, which is usually taken care of with an air can before printing.
I'm not an expert in any way shape or form, but I've begun to think the danger zone is taking the film out of the canister wet and putting them into the dryer. Fortunately I do this right next to the dryer, so it's quite minimal - timewise.
I don't even know how film is handled in a lab (obviously not in small batch canisters I imagine), but maybe wet film is exposed to room air more often?
It sounds like you take your stuff to a small lab? If you can talk with the person doing it, I can't imagine they wouldn't mind the helpful hint that they might lose business if they don't "clean up their act". On the opposite end I remember shooting a couple of test rolls of C41B&W and taking them to RiteAid as I wanted to see some results that day of my new camera. I almost dropped my jaw when the lady was rolling up my developed film and cutting them with bare hands. I know RiteAid isn't the place to go for getting back perfect negs, but at least I saw the difference between small lab and RiteAid 1 hour photo.
When I started developing at my college I noticed how paranoid I am about minimizing the time negatives are exposed to open air, but haven't had a problem yet, other than the occasional dust spot every other roll or so, which is usually taken care of with an air can before printing.
I'm not an expert in any way shape or form, but I've begun to think the danger zone is taking the film out of the canister wet and putting them into the dryer. Fortunately I do this right next to the dryer, so it's quite minimal - timewise.
I don't even know how film is handled in a lab (obviously not in small batch canisters I imagine), but maybe wet film is exposed to room air more often?
It sounds like you take your stuff to a small lab? If you can talk with the person doing it, I can't imagine they wouldn't mind the helpful hint that they might lose business if they don't "clean up their act". On the opposite end I remember shooting a couple of test rolls of C41B&W and taking them to RiteAid as I wanted to see some results that day of my new camera. I almost dropped my jaw when the lady was rolling up my developed film and cutting them with bare hands. I know RiteAid isn't the place to go for getting back perfect negs, but at least I saw the difference between small lab and RiteAid 1 hour photo.
marke
Well-known
navilluspm: I've never developed C-41 before. Can you direct me to a good place to start learning about the procedure and where to get supplies? OTOH, I have heard good things about the new Tmax 400. I guess the only reason I haven't tried it is because the Arista Premium 400 (Tri-X) is so cheap. I guess I should give it a shot though. Thank you.
outforalaska: I have to confess that the "lab" I take my C41 to is Walgreen's. The woman in charge of the lab has a background in film, so I usually try to have her process all my film. Unfortunately, I sometimes get impatient and just want it NOW, so whoever is working that night gets to play with my precious film anyway he/she wants. I think I'll try and see if she can work with me.
outforalaska: I have to confess that the "lab" I take my C41 to is Walgreen's. The woman in charge of the lab has a background in film, so I usually try to have her process all my film. Unfortunately, I sometimes get impatient and just want it NOW, so whoever is working that night gets to play with my precious film anyway he/she wants. I think I'll try and see if she can work with me.
Siluro
Member
When I graduated from uni (2002) there were pro labs everywhere and they generally handled your film well. If they didn't you could have a word with the manager and generally resolve any issues that you had with the service. After all, film processing was thier core business. Now it seems that my pro lab gets something wrong every other time. It is usually 120 e6 or c41 that I get developed commercially and the problems can include slightly exposed first frame as well as the usual scratches and finger prints. Worst of all, they don't seem to care anymore!
If you take your film to a minilab it will probably be their equipment that makes the scratches as the film is pulled through the machine, although I don't doubt that a lot of sloppy handling goes on.
If you do feel like developing your own c41, a nice Jobo processor can be picked up cheap these days which will be able to process B&W, C41 and E6 relatively easily.
If you take your film to a minilab it will probably be their equipment that makes the scratches as the film is pulled through the machine, although I don't doubt that a lot of sloppy handling goes on.
If you do feel like developing your own c41, a nice Jobo processor can be picked up cheap these days which will be able to process B&W, C41 and E6 relatively easily.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Please add fingerprints to the list of disasters. The problem is that labs see them as no more than the effects of routine handling.
morback
Martin N. Hinze
Same reason why I switched to APX entirely and am now processing my own films myself.
No scratches. No fingerprint, very little dust.
I saw how they handled film at one lab once. One guy grabbed a bunch of uncut films (no gloves) and was walking around with it, film strips flying on all sides banging against machines and such.
I also doubt they clean their machines much. A lot of it seems to be old gunk along with the horizontal scratch throughout your roll from being pulled thru that machine.
I got tired one day of spending 90% of my time cleaning my negatives in photoshop.
So now I process myself. The negs come out even better than from pro b&w labs (I used a different developer for sure: much sharper negs, nice grain).
And I love that 45mn of zen working your craft in the bathroom after a whole day of pixel staring...
No scratches. No fingerprint, very little dust.
I saw how they handled film at one lab once. One guy grabbed a bunch of uncut films (no gloves) and was walking around with it, film strips flying on all sides banging against machines and such.
I also doubt they clean their machines much. A lot of it seems to be old gunk along with the horizontal scratch throughout your roll from being pulled thru that machine.
I got tired one day of spending 90% of my time cleaning my negatives in photoshop.
So now I process myself. The negs come out even better than from pro b&w labs (I used a different developer for sure: much sharper negs, nice grain).
And I love that 45mn of zen working your craft in the bathroom after a whole day of pixel staring...
mojokiss
35mm Enthusiast
walgreens vs cvs
walgreens vs cvs
theres a walgreens and cvs across the street from each other near my house. I've tried both. I am unhappy with the walgreens results. I think the cvs has newer machinery too. Tons of scratches, dust, fingerprints, and i am suspecting poor chemical management lately at walgreens here.
i dont expect much, but i am willing to settle for the best of the worst since price and convenience is a big deal for me
Otherwise, i take my stuff to the local pro lab
walgreens vs cvs
theres a walgreens and cvs across the street from each other near my house. I've tried both. I am unhappy with the walgreens results. I think the cvs has newer machinery too. Tons of scratches, dust, fingerprints, and i am suspecting poor chemical management lately at walgreens here.
i dont expect much, but i am willing to settle for the best of the worst since price and convenience is a big deal for meOtherwise, i take my stuff to the local pro lab
I can't abide the poor handling at the corner minilabs. Costco seems to do well with C41 in my experience, but I won't take film to CVS or Walgreens. Heck, knowing what I know about their pharmacies, I won't get my prescriptions filled there either.
It's worth the extra money to take it to a pro lab, or worth the time to do it yourself.
The lab I use is NCPS.
As Ken says: "I learned another secret about them: they process all the film as dip-and-dunk, even their C-41(color print) and B&W. Everyone else, even pro labs, process C-41 in roller-transport minilab processors, which tends to lead to the scratches every other lab has to lie about. NCPS runs even their C-41 with the same care as they run E-6, with 1/3º temperature tolerances."
It's worth the extra money to take it to a pro lab, or worth the time to do it yourself.
The lab I use is NCPS.
As Ken says: "I learned another secret about them: they process all the film as dip-and-dunk, even their C-41(color print) and B&W. Everyone else, even pro labs, process C-41 in roller-transport minilab processors, which tends to lead to the scratches every other lab has to lie about. NCPS runs even their C-41 with the same care as they run E-6, with 1/3º temperature tolerances."