Frustrations Scanning Slides - Colour Management

[beethamd]

I find it impossible to get the colours right between the slide, the image in photoshop, and the web image.

If I create a colour profile for the scanner (even though I'm not sure what a colour profile is), then scan, I can just about get a workable image - even though it's not great. Then if I save for the web - it looks like mush. Little saturation, colour casts - nothing like the slide.

I read >this article< and did as suggested - changing to sRGB in Photoshop, and using Save for Web. No use. When I save for web the right pane shows the image as I would like it to be, but then when I preview in the browser (firefox), it looks like the left pane.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would be very grateful.

 

[J J Kapsberger]

In 'Save for Web', have you tried selecting the '2-up' tab and selecting 'Original' under the 'Preset' drop down menu? Doing so will create a large JPEG with maximum resolution. You can reduce the on-screen and file sizes by keying in a figure in the 'Percent' field on the 'Image Size' tab.

Also, sometimes one has to open the newly-created JPEG in PS and adjust saturation, curves and sharpness a bit to make it look like the original. Don't forget to use layers on the JPEG file and to flatten it once you're done (otherwise it'll be saved as a TIFF file with the added layers).

 

[jaffa_777]

I had the same questions last week on this topic.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45973

Maybe I someone else hee can help, but you would have to let us know what scanner and software you are using because every here has different set ups.

 

[beethamd]

I can get a usable image in Photoshop, just not on the web. Whenever I save for the web as a jpg the colours are shifted. I thought that using sRGB avoided this.

 

[aad]

I scan and embed sRGB at the same time. I understand some browsers interpret colors differently regardless, ut it seems subtle to me.

I'm guessing you're using Vuescan?

 

[feilb]

Another thing to consider is that photoshop is a color managed application while your web browser is not. It is entirely possible that you have photoshop set to show you the colors under a specific color profile that your web browser is not using.

To check what photoshop is showing you, go to View -> Proof Setup.

By default, i believe photoshop uses "Working CMYK" to best approximate a print. To view it as you would see it on your monitor (not in photoshop) use one of the RGB profiles. Monitor RGB should do it. You will notice a color and contrast shift when changing profiles.

EDIT:

Also, what type of output file are you saving as and what quality setting?

 

[beethamd]

I scan and embed sRGB at the same time. I understand some browsers interpret colors differently regardless, ut it seems subtle to me.

I'm guessing you're using Vuescan?

OK - so I might try ensuring the scan is sRGB too. That's an idea, I'll try that. Thank you. If I scan using an icc profile, then open in Photoshop under sRGB - would Photoshop use the icc profile if I Saved for Web? If it does, then of course forefox doesn't see the profile and that could be the problem.

I'm using SilverFast - and Photoshop Elements 3. Is there a way to tell Photoshop to drop the icc profile under sRGB?

 

[beethamd]

To check what photoshop is showing you, go to View -> Proof Setup.

Also, what type of output file are you saving as and what quality setting?

I'm using Photoshop Elements 3 - That option's not there. 🙁

I'm saving as .jpg on the highest quality setting.

 

[beethamd]

When you create a scanner colour profile using an IT8 colour target for slides, does that profile go with each slide-scan, or is the profile just used by the scanner to produce a normalised image?

Head spinning.

 

[Finder]

When you create a scanner colour profile using an IT8 colour target for slides, does that profile go with each slide-scan, or is the profile just used by the scanner to produce a normalised image?

Head spinning.

The target just defines the scanner response. Once made you can use it for a long time. You may want to reprofile the scanner from time to time as the light source will drift as it ages.

 

[Tuolumne]

I use an Epson 4990 and Minolta 5400, both with factory SW and factory defaults. Very liitle change to SW defaults, usually just increasing the resolution of the scan, turning on Digital ICE. Save as a tif. Works fine, no problems, great photos and colors just like the slide. In fact, doing almost any post processing to the scan. other than a little sharpenning, considerably degrades the image. I was really surprised how easy it was, based on how many problems people report with their scanning. Now if it only didn't taks forever to scan... 🙂

/T
P.S. I did not set any special color profile for the scanners.

 

[beethamd]

D200, in sRGB colour space. Take photo - jpg. OK. Open in Photoshop which is already in sRGB mode. Play with colours a bit. Select Save for Web in Photoshop.

There are two panes. The one on left is supposed to be the original image before I save it specially for the web. The one on the right is supposed to be the preview of what it looks like in the browser when saved.

When I select the little preview button at the bottom, which opens the image in firefox, I see - guess what - the left hand image.

So it's not a scanner problem.

Th

 

[Pherdinand]

web browsers suck as they don't care about the embedded colour profiles, except safari on Mac and maybe something else(?).
Depends also how your PS elements is set up. I never used elements. But in photoshop photoshop, you can set it up as to ask you about the profile if you load an image with a missing or different embedded profile than the "working" one set for photoshop.
example:
if i take an image in srgb profile but there's no profile tag attached to the image, no software will know in what image profile he should interpret the image. Some of them might guess correctly using srgb, or most of them might guess correctly monitor rgb IF your monitor rgb is close enough to the srgb profile (which is probably not).
BUT
if your photoshop is set up e.g. in adobe rgb and is set up as not to ask about the missing or different profile when you load an image
then the srgb image will be considered as adobe rgb
adobe rgb being a wider profile, the srgb numbers will result in a more saturated image.

The correct way would be that EVERY software that displays an image considers the image colour profile and every image has a built-in profile, but alas this is not the case. Far from it.
Funny thing is, even the scanning softwares are f*cked up in this. I tell e.g. the epson software to scan in profile x, say adobe rgb, and what he does is he scans in the adobe rgb software but forgets to attach the colour profile tag to the image so if i open the image after scan in stg else than photoshop, it will be considered as monitor rgb and everything will look dull and too light. If i use Silverfast SE (it came with the epson v700), and tell him to scan in any profile - what he does he scans in the silverfast epsonv700 profile all the time. But at least he is attaching the correct profile tag to the image.

One of the easiest things to do is what Tuolumne said - just use the factory settings. I think in that case the epson scanners scan in monitor rgb so the image will look the same in every imaging application incl photoshop if it is set up to work in monitor rgb.
However the defaults are a bit limiting coz you can't scan e.g. in 16 bit per plane mode which i much prefer for any editing.

 

[Pherdinand]

With digital cameras i had the same misterious issue.
I made two shots one after the other. Loaded them in photoshop, cropped etc, resized and saved for wen including the profile.
One of them looks much less saturated than the other. In PS they both looked the same.
This i also can't understand.

 

[beethamd]

Maybe I've resolved the issue.

I've changed that much - who knows - anyhow, here's what I've done.

I'm using a MacBook - make sure that you are using the sRGB Display Profile.
When opening images (I was using PSE3, bought PSE4 today...) ensure that you remove any colour profile prior to Saving for the Web - and that you are in the sRGB Colour Space.

When selecting Save for Web - always ensure that you select Uncompensated Colour and that ICC Profile is unchecked.

That seems to work. I think that PSE is maintaining a working profile as you make edits - even when you work in sRGB. Deselecting the profile before saving, seems to do the trick. It would be easier to just have a Web-toggle somewhere in PSE.

I bought a PSE4 book too. So frustrating all this colour management stuff.

Perdinand - thank you very much for your help. I'm using an Epson V750, and I'm just wondering if I should use the ICC profile I created.

Oh well.

 

[beethamd]

Before -

After -

The second image is faithful to the slide.

What was so frustrating was that I'd edit in PS and have image two on the screen, then saving it using Save for Web, and getting image one. Now, what I see is what is saved and what is shown in the browser.

Picture taken with Bronica RF645 with 45mm lens.