FSU price guides

[dll927]

I don't know what "napchop's" native language is, but if it's Russian, he does very well in English. My main question in the original posting would be about those 23,000 "drugs". Eh???

It seems that many, if not most, of the Russian/Ukrainian sellers are not particularly camera specialists, but rather the types who will sell gold doorknobs if there's a market for them. These forums have a running commentary about the 'better' and more dependable sellers.

I have had very good luck with Yuri at Fedka. He may be somewhat higher with his prices than some others, but he generally will stand behind what he sells, and he at least makes sure the item is working.

As for the costs added to non-euro items in the EU, let's face it - we Americans call those "taxes", and we know that all governments thrive on them.

 

[napchop]

Drugs

Drugs

I don't know what "napchop's" native language is, but if it's Russian, he does very well in English. My main question in the original posting would be about those 23,000 "drugs". Eh???

It seems that many, if not most, of the Russian/Ukrainian sellers are not particularly camera specialists, but rather the types who will sell gold doorknobs if there's a market for them. These forums have a running commentary about the 'better' and more dependable sellers.

I have had very good luck with Yuri at Fedka. He may be somewhat higher with his prices than some others, but he generally will stand behind what he sells, and he at least makes sure the item is working.

As for the costs added to non-euro items in the EU, let's face it - we Americans call those "taxes", and we know that all governments thrive on them.

I'm actually one of those eccentric English guys who just happens to live in Kiev now, working as a photo journalist and English teacher (hence the reasonable level of english) and married to a very tolerant (most of the time) Ukrainian girl.
Yuri at Fedka is Ukrainian and does good deals from what I've heard. His cameras are shipped from Ukraine before being put up, hence the slightly higher price.
I'm not actually a dealer as such, I just goot drawn into it when I started building the site, as people kept asking me to find them cameras and I was collecting them for my own use and amusement anyway.
I now own over 200 FSU cameras
30 of them are Kiev rangefinders
16 Zorkis
30 Feds and lots of other strange and wacky misfits from the Zavods of USSR
23,000 Drugs (Drug being a rangefinder camera, not an illegal substance sold for huge amounts of money)

 

[ruben]

...........I can have your Kievs repaired at Arsenal (where they were made) at very reasonable prices and with easy access to new stocks of parts.
cheers, Mike

Hi Mike,

Perhaps it may be too much to ask, but if you just could enter the Arsenal factory and make some pics concerning the camera parts stocks, workers etc, - this will be of thrilling interest to us all.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[dll927]

That really would be interesting, if he can find his way through all the cobwebs. Might even find a few left-over parts.

That's the first time I've heard of camera named "Drug". Is that a translation or just how it comes out in that inimitable Cyrillic script?

 

[Jocko]

That's the first time I've heard of camera named "Drug". Is that a translation or just how it comes out in that inimitable Cyrillic script?

It's a latin transliteration of the Cyrillic [some people prefer "Droug", although I'm not sure if it's closer to the sound or simply for the obvious reason🙂]. In either case, the word means "Friend".

Short-lved (60-62), but by all accounts one of the best Soviet RFs, notable for a leica-type "drum" rangefinder coupling, suggesting higher than usual manufacturing tolerances, and a trigger wind-on mounted on the base.

Cheers, Ian

 

[zhang xk]

I'd like to know who were the owners of those rare earliest Kievs? Did they sell at about the same price as Contax II? I saw a passport with a price of 350 rubles for an Almaz 103 made in 1980's. I would also like to know the production numbers of Kiev II, III if possible.

Zhang

 

[Jocko]

I'd like to know who were the owners of those rare earliest Kievs? Did they sell at about the same price as Contax II?

Zhang

Well, Zhang, one of them was the rather enigmatic Georgy Malenkov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov) the forgotten Soviet leader between Stalin and Khruschev. There were many strange stories about Malenkov who was widely rumoured to be a member of the Skoptsi, a somewhat drastic religious group...

Russian Historian Roy Medvedev tells a story about Malenkov photographing wildflowers and dropping his lenses in terror after inadvertently meeting a dissident he'd jailed in Stalin's time...

This brings up the interesting question of how cameras were distributed in the USSR - one supposes people like Malenkov would not have gone into a shop, so did some special department exist which sourced goods for the nomenklatura? And what shops sold cameras? Was mail order available?

Such a lot we don't know...

 

[zhang xk]

Ian,

I heard that Kievs were not sold the same way as Zorki or Fed. One has to obtain a permit from a committee for a Kiev. These were the top end rangefinder cameras. Kiev 4 and Contax IIa sold for about the same price in 1970's in China in some special stores.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[napchop]

Early Kievs

Early Kievs

Well, Zhang, one of them was the rather enigmatic Georgy Malenkov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Malenkov) the forgotten Soviet leader between Stalin and Khruschev. There were many strange stories about Malenkov who was widely rumoured to be a member of the Skoptsi, a somewhat drastic religious group...

Russian Historian Roy Medvedev tells a story about Malenkov photographing wildflowers and dropping his lenses in terror after inadvertently meeting a dissident he'd jailed in Stalin's time...

This brings up the interesting question of how cameras were distributed in the USSR - one supposes people like Malenkov would not have gone into a shop, so did some special department exist which sourced goods for the nomenklatura? And what shops sold cameras? Was mail order available?

Such a lot we don't know...

My friend Constantine has a 1947 Kiev for sale. It's featured on my site and I was there when he opened it up for CLR. The front plate is engraved, not stamped with the name, and inside you can clearly see the 'Contax' stamp on the back of the plate. This camera wasn't so mauch manufactured at Arsenal as assembled from Contax stocks taken from Germany in 1945. The lens is a collapsing ZK 50mm also assembled from German parts.
Also featured on the site is a pre production Kiev 3 from 1950, which is also of mostly German stock construction(the Kiev 3 didnt begin its production run till 1952).
I am working on a history of Arsenal on the site and apologise for the snail like progress, as I'm caught between work, family and cameras and must try to keep all in balance. but I try to add something to the site every week, and I'm waiting for a lot of material from Kharkov about the Fed plant and its workers and History (to be supplied by a former worker there)
Arsenal is a huge complex of buildings, they didnt just manufacture cameras but also made military, optical and medical instruments of all kinds. Because it was mainly a military plant there is a lot of reluctance among the former workers (including my wife who worked there in 1986-7) to speak about the factory. All workers were made to sign a secrecy agreement which still holds under the present government, who incidently want to demolish most of the factory site (which is a Historically listed building) and build luxury flats for their relatives and friends.
😱

 

[napchop]

production

production

I'd like to know who were the owners of those rare earliest Kievs? Did they sell at about the same price as Contax II? I saw a passport with a price of 350 rubles for an Almaz 103 made in 1980's. I would also like to know the production numbers of Kiev II, III if possible.

Zhang

Hi zhang,
as far as I've been able to find out
1947 500 cameras
1948 2,000 cameras
1949 2,000 cameras
1950 production 5,000 cameras kiev 2 500 Kiev 3 prototype
1951 5,200 kiev 2 only
1952 6,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 3
1953 8,000 kiev 2 3,000 kiev 3
1954 5,500 kiev 2 4,000 kiev 3
1955 1,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 2a 1,000 kiev 3 1,500 kiev 3a
In 1955 the factory recieved new equipment and machines and more workers were assigned to the factory, production increased dramatically to around 15,000 cmaeras a year and further increased as the Vega was introduced, followed by the developement of lens production facilities.

 

[Jocko]

... the present government, who incidently want to demolish most of the factory site (which is a Historically listed building) and build luxury flats for their relatives and friends.
😱

Sounds like they need a revolution!

Being a person of enormous intellectual depth, my vote goes to that very pretty lady 🙂

Cheers, Ian

 

[zhang xk]

Hi zhang,
as far as I've been able to find out
1947 500 cameras
1948 2,000 cameras
1949 2,000 cameras
1950 production 5,000 cameras kiev 2 500 Kiev 3 prototype
1951 5,200 kiev 2 only
1952 6,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 3
1953 8,000 kiev 2 3,000 kiev 3
1954 5,500 kiev 2 4,000 kiev 3
1955 1,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 2a 1,000 kiev 3 1,500 kiev 3a
In 1955 the factory recieved new equipment and machines and more workers were assigned to the factory, production increased dramatically to around 15,000 cmaeras a year and further increased as the Vega was introduced, followed by the developement of lens production facilities.

Hi,

Many thanks!😀 These information are not found anywhere on the web. Great job!!

 

[rxmd]

I now own over 200 FSU cameras
30 of them are Kiev rangefinders
16 Zorkis
30 Feds and lots of other strange and wacky misfits from the Zavods of USSR
23,000 Drugs (Drug being a rangefinder camera, not an illegal substance sold for huge amounts of money)

Whoa, given the number of Drugs you own, I probably got lucky to get a leftover one myself 😉

Philipp

 

[napchop]

Hi Daniel,


You don't have to use FedEx or UPS to have cameras from Russia or the Soviet Union posted to you. Just have people send the things using the normal national post system, Pochta Rossii, UkrPoshta or whatever.

Gevorg Vartanyan once told me that the loss rate on UkrPoshta parcels was actually lower than on USPS. I'm not sure how true that is, though. But it shouldn't be inherently more unsafe than FedEx or UPS, especially since you're having things posted from there and your average FSU camera dealer is likely to be on good standing with his post office.

Philipp

I've had no problems with the Ukrainian postal service. They are actually quicker than the parcel carriers. 5 days to UK and 6 days to USA from Ukraine and prices quite reasonable considering the weight of an average FSU camera
Mike

 

[Xmas]

So the ratio of II to III (production) cameras is about 3:1

Noel

 

[zhang xk]

Hi zhang,
as far as I've been able to find out
1947 500 cameras
1948 2,000 cameras
1949 2,000 cameras
1950 production 5,000 cameras kiev 2 500 Kiev 3 prototype
1951 5,200 kiev 2 only
1952 6,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 3
1953 8,000 kiev 2 3,000 kiev 3
1954 5,500 kiev 2 4,000 kiev 3
1955 1,000 kiev 2 2,000 kiev 2a 1,000 kiev 3 1,500 kiev 3a
In 1955 the factory recieved new equipment and machines and more workers were assigned to the factory, production increased dramatically to around 15,000 cmaeras a year and further increased as the Vega was introduced, followed by the developement of lens production facilities.

Only 10,500 Kiev 3 were made for both versions. That is a small number even compared to Shanghai 582 early versions. I suspect the prefix A, B are qulity marks. Some Chinese sub-qulaity cameras were sold with special marks, usually a red dot . Watches were sold with "次" (sub-quality)stamped on the movements. What do you think of those prefixes?😕

zhang

 

[rxmd]

Hi Mike,

I've had no problems with the Ukrainian postal service. They are actually quicker than the parcel carriers. 5 days to UK and 6 days to USA from Ukraine and prices quite reasonable considering the weight of an average FSU camera

you're based in Kiev, aren't you? I guess that does make a difference. We normally send parcels either to Donetsk or to a village in Dnipropetrovsk oblast', and we've had a certain loss rate. From Germany there are cheap transport services which deliver the package in person and send you a digital picture of the person who picked it up; prices are reasonable and it's very handy, if a bit slow.

Philipp

 

[napchop]

Only 10,500 Kiev 3 were made for both versions. That is a small number even compared to Shanghai 582 early versions. I suspect the prefix A, B are qulity marks. Some Chinese sub-qulaity cameras were sold with special marks, usually a red dot . Watches were sold with "次" (sub-quality)stamped on the movements. What do you think of those prefixes?😕

zhang

Sorry, didnt mean to mislead you, Zhang. Both the Kiev 2a and Kiev 3a continued their production until 1958 when the Kiev 4 replaced the kiev 3a and in 1959 when the Kiev 4a replaced the Kiev 2a. Production figures for these years was higher than the years I mentioned but since I dont have exact figures I couldn't say how many Kiev2 & 3a's were produced in that time. The number of 2's and 3's is fairly accurate and shows their scarcity. A, as far as I can tell were the Kiev 3's with the Contax meters. Or that's how it seems when I look at my own and those I've seen in other collections.

 

[napchop]

Hi Mike,

you're based in Kiev, aren't you? I guess that does make a difference. We normally send parcels either to Donetsk or to a village in Dnipropetrovsk oblast', and we've had a certain loss rate. From Germany there are cheap transport services which deliver the package in person and send you a digital picture of the person who picked it up; prices are reasonable and it's very handy, if a bit slow.

Philipp

Hi Philipp
There's a twice weekly mini-bus service that will take cameras to Berlin or Amsterdam for me for postage in Holland or Germany. This is cheap and secure as the drivers have an arrangement with customs that deletes complications. but actual post services have been without problems so far (touches wood) and i've sent cameras to Holland, USA, UK, and Spain
Mike

 

[zhang xk]

Sorry, didnt mean to mislead you, Zhang. Both the Kiev 2a and Kiev 3a continued their production until 1958 when the Kiev 4 replaced the kiev 3a and in 1959 when the Kiev 4a replaced the Kiev 2a. Production figures for these years was higher than the years I mentioned but since I dont have exact figures I couldn't say how many Kiev2 & 3a's were produced in that time. The number of 2's and 3's is fairly accurate and shows their scarcity. A, as far as I can tell were the Kiev 3's with the Contax meters. Or that's how it seems when I look at my own and those I've seen in other collections.

Hi Mike, No problem. I understand your list. I was referring to Kiev 3, not 3A. It is one of the rarer Kievs, Kiev 1947-49, Kiev no name, Kiev 5, etc.😀

Just kidding, would the very last Kiev 3 also be valuable? The last one of the most complex rangefinder cameras?

Cheers,

Zhang