FSU vs Russian Leica copy

shadowfox

shadowfox

Darkroom printing lives
Local time
12:03 AM
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
8,770
View My Gallery
Hi all, I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to FSU RF cameras and/or cameras from the Eastern Europe. Few questions that have been in the back of my mind as of late:

1. The Leica copies made in Russia, are they real cameras? or just a pretty shell meant for display only?

2. If they are real cameras, are there people who use it and like it? I wouldn't expect that the quality is like the real Leica, but is it close? not even close? based on what?

3. How's the "real" (as in not a copy of anything) FSU cameras like Kiev, Zorki, Fed, compared to the Leica copies in terms of quality, value and usability?
 
shadowfox said:
1. The Leica copies made in Russia, are they real cameras? or just a pretty shell meant for display only?
Click to expand...

Most are functional - being based off of a Fed or similar then with new bodywork.

2. If they are real cameras, are there people who use it and like it? I wouldn't expect that the quality is like the real Leica, but is it close? not even close? based on what?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. But if it is based off the performance and build of a Fed, many will like it, but it won't really be comparable to the tolerances and build quality/performance of the Leica (sorry Comerades)

3. How's the "real" (as in not a copy of anything) FSU cameras like Kiev, Zorki, Fed, compared to the Leica copies in terms of quality, value and usability?
Click to expand...

Well most of the Fed's are essentially Leica copies, the Kiev's are Contax copies already - it's just a matter of whether they keep their own branding and dials, or whether someone tries to really make it look "exactly" like a Leica. They can be a very good value, provided you get one in good shape - and once CLA'd by a pro (like Oleg) they make great shooters.

That said - I'm no Fed-xpert so others are free to jump all over and correct my previous statements.
 
Last edited:
1, They're real cameras.
2, People use them and like them.
3, They're not Leica's! My Zorki 4K plus Jupiter 8 50mm/F2 lens cost about £10. An M2/3 +50mm would add a couple of "0"'s to the price!

Best advice? Get one, run a few films through it. See what you think. If you don't like it, put it back on ebay, get your money back.

P.S. I also love Olympus. Couldn't part with my XA.
 
The Leica copy's are just FED,s or Zorki,s with Leica engraved in place of FED or Zorki , If your lucky they have been cleaned and lubricated but I wouldn't count on it .
The best idea would be to either buy a FED or Zorki from Fedka or Oleg that has been serviced and is ready to go , Or if your willing to take the chance and are mechanically adept buy one from one of the various sellers on Eb*y .

Build quality is variable plus you have to remember that most of these camera's are getting on in years and are very unlikely to have been treated with kid gloves or even used for quite a long time .
But they are cheap and with a little tinkering in some cases , are great , affordable LTM system cameras capable of good results .



Paul
 
Right, as mentioned, the Leica Copies are FEDs and Zorkis that have had their engravings filled in and then re-engraved with the Leica logo, etc. And also, many go so far as to do the same with some Industar collapsible, re-engaving the "Elmar" logo to match the "Leica" body.

If the forger/artist started out with a complete and good working FED or Zorki camera, then it's a possiblity that the copy (once re-assembled after painting 😎 ) could be in decent working order as well. But there's no guarantee of this. Parts are quite interchangable between models and sometimes makes, so the pretty, freshly painted Leica copy could very well be a hodge-podge "FEDZorkenstien" of parts from who knows where.

Another big downside to me - IMHO - as far as the "Leica" engraved copies is simply the price. It's often crazy-money for what? Paint. It's not too difficult to buy two good FEDs or Zorkis that will take good photos for the price of one [maybe, maybe not good] L.Copy. And occasionally, for a few dollars more, one can even purchase a genuine user Barnack Leica.

There are guys here that have, use and like good L.Copys so I'm sure they'll jump in with the better voice of experience. As far as FEDs 'n Zorkis 'n Kievs 'n stuff, the RFF.Gallery is full of great shots that came from still-kickin' FSUs.

cheers

edit: I think this one has had the paint redone. 😉 and has been floating around in the Bay for over a year now.
 
Last edited:
I fully agree with all the above! I'd just add that the term "Leica copy" tends to be very loosely used, especially by E-bay sellers. A Fed 2 or Zorki 4 is in no meaningful sense a copy of anything.

As for the FED1, which is closely based on the Leica II, and the Zorki 1, which is based on the FED - these are excellent cameras and much loved by many here,

But... the cameras dressed up as Leicas are - IMHO - to be avoided. Apart from the fact that many are junk, hideous or both, one of the joys in FSU cameras lies in what they are: solid, plain honest machines with a splendid history of their own.

Cheers, Ian
 
Well, Shadowfox, dubious aesthetics aside, that camera isn't a copy of anything - certainly not any Leica. At the least I think one might be greviously troubled by the potential for light leaks from the back (ALL barnack Leicas are bottom loaders).

Furthermore, it costs £200! You can buy a bag full of Feds or a real Barnack Leica for that! It is, in my view a curiousity, nothing more.

Cheers Ian
 
shadowfox said:
How about this one? Looks decently crafted (of course, it could also be the case of "don't trust the photos", right?):
Click to expand...
Some of the Leica fakes don't look too bad, although IMO it's a waste of a nice FSU camera (or cameras!). Ones like this are just gaudy and OTT, they are just nothing like anything Leica would have turned out. I guess they must have their devotees or they wouldn't be made but I can't see something like this being used beyond an ornament. Waste waste waste....

Ok, rant over!
 
shadowfox said:
Hi all, I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to FSU RF cameras and/or cameras from the Eastern Europe. Few questions that have been in the back of my mind as of late:

1. The Leica copies made in Russia, are they real cameras? or just a pretty shell meant for display only?

2. If they are real cameras, are there people who use it and like it? I wouldn't expect that the quality is like the real Leica, but is it close? not even close? based on what?

3. How's the "real" (as in not a copy of anything) FSU cameras like Kiev, Zorki, Fed, compared to the Leica copies in terms of quality, value and usability?
Click to expand...

1. They're real cameras (mostly). Often not one real camera, but real. In reality they may well be made of a mix of parts that renders them useless as a camera, pot-luck on that part!

2. See above, they may be in good usable condition, or then again they may not. They aren't likely to compare to the quality of a Leica, being made from a camera that wasn't as well made..

3. The "normal" FSUs are nice cameras. If you get a good one they are excellent users. Remember that the body of any camera is essentially a film box to which the lens attaches. The lens takes the picture, not the body. FSU lenses are generally excellent performers. Yes, I know the body can cause problems due to incorrect lens register, poor shutter operation etc, but the ultimate picture quality is still lens-determined.

Personal opinion: As has been pointed out by others, why bother with a fake Leica? Get a real one for not hugely more or be happy with a standard FSU that's honest. The fakes won't fool any Leica afficionado, and non-camera people often don't even know what a Leica is anyway. I think it's what is usually called a lose-lose situation!
 
shadowfox said:
How about this one? Looks decently crafted (of course, it could also be the case of "don't trust the photos", right?):
Click to expand...

That one, IMHO, is pretty cool. It certainly looks like care was taken with the work. If it didn't have fake engraving on the top, I'd be happy to own it.

As has been said, you could have a very nice real Leica for the same money. That doesn't mean that particular model isn't worth what they are asking, just that it is an unknown quantity.

I suppose you could always get it, and decide once you had it whether it met your expectations. The worst that could happen is you would relist it on auction with a "buy it now" price equal to what you paid, and be out shipping. Not really that great a risk IMHO, especially if you save the auction pics in case you need to use them yourself. The seller certainly has enough positive feedback.
 
I've been a member of RFF for three months and one thing I have learned since being here: Leicas break too and are expensive to be fixed. Get a FED 2. I promise you'll love it.😀
 
Gosh, thanks for your answers, what a learning experience for novice like myself.

You guys are surely passionate and knowledgeable about these cameras. Wouldn't expect less from the FSU Forum folks 🙂

If I would like to try out an FSU camera, that fulfill this one:

Must be easy to load film, when I read that I have to cut 10cm or whatever of the film to fit it into the spool for older Leica's I'm turned-off instantly, my idea of shooting with classic cameras doesn't extend to cutting films, sorry 🙂

... which one would you guys recommend (I count yours as a recommendation too, gb hill)

And also, where did you guys usually get your FSU cameras? (some of you already sugggested Fedka and Oleg ... see, I do take notes 🙂 )

I'm not afraid to shop on eBoy (I got most of my Olympus collection from it), but I've never bought stuff from outside of US, let alone somewhere far like say, Ukraine. What are your FSU camera international shipping experiences (if any) ?
 
Last edited:
Don't really now the specifics of which kind of FSU camera loads, so I can only speak for the ones that I own, all 3 of them (FED 5, Zenit-E, Zenit-122) are as simple as can be to load, as easy as any other 35mm film camera.
 
- Well none of the FSU cameras I own requires cutting film.
- Standard negative film is cut already anyway unless I'm missing something
- fed 2 is a small convenient reliable choice (and cheap too). It's not bottom load, so it is easier than fed 1 (although fed 1 is smaller and more stylish IMHO).
- Zorki 3M is a great camera (though a bit more expensive)
- Zorki 4 and 4K are one of the cheapest (35$ with Jupiter 8 lens) and most common (I prefere fed 2 and Zorki 3M though)

I bought all my FSU cameras from ebay (most of them shipped form Ukraine or Russia) and my experience was from good to very good.
 
Cutting the film leader is for the bottom loaders , Most of the other FSU cameras have a removable back or even a swing back in the case of the Zorki 6 .

Recommendations , FED 2,FED 3,Zorki 3M,Zorki 6 Apart from the 3M most can be picked up for peanuts , and in a lot of cases postage from the Ukraine costs more than you pay for the camera 😱 though its academic really because you will end up with more than one once FSUGAS kicks in 😀

One thing to remember is that the majority of these cameras have probably been in the back of the cupboard unused for years , They will need a little tlc and some adjustments to work reliably , But thats part of there character .

I've bought the majority of my cameras from the FSU and apart from the long delivery times I've had no problems .



Paul
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
Eastern European FSU dealers (Ukraine/Poland/etc) legitimate or not?
2 3
Replies
41
Views
4K
Coldkennels
Coldkennels
D
Let's see your less common 50s in LTM
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
rfaspen
rfaspen
santino
Podcasts about FSU gear
Replies
10
Views
2K
Mark240590
Mark240590
E
Soviet lenses, leica cameras and vice versa
2
Replies
32
Views
6K
former member
F
J
  • Article Article
The Leica as a work of ART: Selling the image of elegant exclusivity
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
Pioneer
Pioneer
Back
Top Bottom