willie_901
Veteran
I agree completely.
Yet people hold on to the idea that the APS-C format is inherently inferior regardless of the maximum lens aperture or sensor efficiency. Sensor surface area is certainly important. At the same time, Fuji's lenses are fast enough to deliver as much light as commonly owned lenses with 24 X 36 mm sensors. This leaves us with about 1/2 a stop disadvantage with regard to DOF flexibility. Even m4/3 cameras would perform similarly with 24 X 36 mm sensors if the lenses were fast enough (maximum apertures twice the size of the corresponding 24X 36 mm lenses).
I realize adapted lenses are a different story as you can't stand in the same place you would stand with an APS-C sensor and retain the field-of-view you are used to with a 24 X 36 mm sensor.
eleskin
Well-known
I'm In! $$$$
I'm In! $$$$
Well that does it, I want it. Now how about the X Pro-2? Any news on this? I would love zero shutter lag just like a Leica M!!!
I'm In! $$$$
Well that does it, I want it. Now how about the X Pro-2? Any news on this? I would love zero shutter lag just like a Leica M!!!
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
It is going to be a long, long time before a mirrorless compact that focuses throught its sensing surface is going to get close in lag to a manual focus rangefinder that fires from a closed shutter. Shoot an M 240 sometime.
Dante
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I'll pass.
If they came up with 35mm f2 or f1.8 that is much smaller, maybe I'll bite.
If they came up with 35mm f2 or f1.8 that is much smaller, maybe I'll bite.
YYV_146
Well-known
Full electronic shutter needed. You can easily use a curtainless sensor to achieve 1/8000, even 1/16000 speeds, and there would be virtually no time lag.
Sony has a electronic front curtain in some NEX bodies, cuts the shutter lag significantly IMO.
SausalitoDog
Well-known
Am I missing something?
If you shut off the auto focus, isn't manual as fast as a Leica?
I may be wrong, but I definitely don't "sense" any shutter lag in manual mode on any of the x series cameras.
Tom
SausalitoDog
Well-known
Is 27mm pancake a possible substitute?
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
No matter what mode, the camera has to close and then open the shutter. So there will never not be a lag.
An electronic shutter would work better for lag - and if I recall, this is how the X100 gets a leaf shutter to such high speeds. But that has not seemed to be a priority on the X-Pro series for some reason. CMOS has also seemed to lag a little in global (all at once) shutter development. There may also be other tradeoffs to an all-electronic shutter.
Dante
willie_901
Veteran
AF Operation Is Not Shutter Lag
AF Operation Is Not Shutter Lag
Tom,
You are right.
With an analog RF you turn the lens focus color to pre-focus via the focus scale or you focus by aligning the RF patch. When you press the shutter the delay is only involves the shutter mechanism operation.
With the XP1 you can pre-focus when you are using an adapted lens or a Fujinon lens with the in-camera digital focus-scale display. Again the lag is purely a function of the shutter mechanism operation. In my experience this lag is no longer than any other focal-plane shutter mechanism. In other words, the delay is not a disadvantage or noticeably slower than hundreds of other cameras
If the Fuji AF is set to M mode, and you press the AFL/AFE button to focus you are using AF manually. Once focus locks, the focus can not change unless you turn the lens collar or press the AFL/AFE button again. The same goes for just turning the lens collar without using the AFL/AFE button. With the latest firmware the focus-by-wire delay is reasonable (but this has nothing to do with shutter delay). If you switch back to OVF mode by pressing the control wheel, when you press the shutter there is no delay before the shutter operation begins. If you remain in EVF mode then there is EVF display delay.
In AFS mode a shutter-button half-press initiates focusing. If the button is fully pressed from the half-way position there is no additional delay. If the shutter button is released and then pressed again in a single full press, there is a focus delay which could be mis-interpreted as a shutter delay.
If you shoot in raw mode and bracket exposures, or use exposure burst mode, then there is a delay until you can use the shutter again cause by data transfer. Some menu parameters increase focus lag. If you choose to inhibit shutter operation until focus lock is made, the shutter delay can appear to be quite long. Of course this is really focus delay.
The above only applies to OVF mode. In EVF mode there is always an additional delay due to the time it takes to render the image and display it in the EVF. The XP1 does not have the fastest EVF display currently available.
An all-electronic shutter could have even less delay and be silent. But I don't think it would reduce EVF lag.
AF Operation Is Not Shutter Lag
Tom,
You are right.
With an analog RF you turn the lens focus color to pre-focus via the focus scale or you focus by aligning the RF patch. When you press the shutter the delay is only involves the shutter mechanism operation.
With the XP1 you can pre-focus when you are using an adapted lens or a Fujinon lens with the in-camera digital focus-scale display. Again the lag is purely a function of the shutter mechanism operation. In my experience this lag is no longer than any other focal-plane shutter mechanism. In other words, the delay is not a disadvantage or noticeably slower than hundreds of other cameras
If the Fuji AF is set to M mode, and you press the AFL/AFE button to focus you are using AF manually. Once focus locks, the focus can not change unless you turn the lens collar or press the AFL/AFE button again. The same goes for just turning the lens collar without using the AFL/AFE button. With the latest firmware the focus-by-wire delay is reasonable (but this has nothing to do with shutter delay). If you switch back to OVF mode by pressing the control wheel, when you press the shutter there is no delay before the shutter operation begins. If you remain in EVF mode then there is EVF display delay.
In AFS mode a shutter-button half-press initiates focusing. If the button is fully pressed from the half-way position there is no additional delay. If the shutter button is released and then pressed again in a single full press, there is a focus delay which could be mis-interpreted as a shutter delay.
If you shoot in raw mode and bracket exposures, or use exposure burst mode, then there is a delay until you can use the shutter again cause by data transfer. Some menu parameters increase focus lag. If you choose to inhibit shutter operation until focus lock is made, the shutter delay can appear to be quite long. Of course this is really focus delay.
The above only applies to OVF mode. In EVF mode there is always an additional delay due to the time it takes to render the image and display it in the EVF. The XP1 does not have the fastest EVF display currently available.
An all-electronic shutter could have even less delay and be silent. But I don't think it would reduce EVF lag.
gavinlg
Veteran
Theres no shutter lag on the x-pro1 or xe-1.
brbo
Well-known
How's that possible?!
GaryLH
Veteran
Dante is correct in the sense that a camera that is dependent on live view and contrast af, its shutter needs an extra step (close-open-close) vs a dslr w/o live view (open-close) has a different amount of measureable shutter lag. There maybe other factors that could cause more shutter lag in either type then the extra shutter step...I don't know.. I never worried about it since my type of photography is not dependent on this.
However, to me, I cannot perceive (tell) the difference in my everyday usage.
Cameras such as the Ricoh gxr w/ a12 m module and the Pentax Q for example both have electronic sensors but are not the normal operation mode. The gxr implementation of electronic shutter however has some weird effects that have been mentioned in the past when used in certain lighting conditions. I am not aware of hearing about such issues on the Pentax Q.
Anyway interesting..
Gary
However, to me, I cannot perceive (tell) the difference in my everyday usage.
Cameras such as the Ricoh gxr w/ a12 m module and the Pentax Q for example both have electronic sensors but are not the normal operation mode. The gxr implementation of electronic shutter however has some weird effects that have been mentioned in the past when used in certain lighting conditions. I am not aware of hearing about such issues on the Pentax Q.
Anyway interesting..
Gary
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I am looking forward to seeing serious comparisons of output from this lens on an interchangeable-lens X camera, versus the X100S.
thirtyfivefifty
Noctilust survivor
Fuji x-series has my interest now with this lens. Can forget about a Leica with Summicrons now. Waiting on an X-Pro2.
willie_901
Veteran
Well if you are being literal (0.000 seconds lag) it's impossible.
If you are being practical – how does the minimum possible mechanical/electronic lag compare to other focal plane shutter cameras – the shutter lag is irrelevant. Qualitatively, the shutter lag is no different to the Ziess Ikon M, I use to own.
Avotius
Some guy
I am a bit torn on which lens to save up for now that I have an XE1 but using adapted lenses only for now.
I like the idea of this 23mm lens, a semi wide normal lens with a f1.4 but as it has been said, that lens looks pretty darn big. It seems like a pretty hard sell for me, I was foolishly hoping for under 700 bucks on this 23mm, 900 seems a stretch too far, especially as I am very interested in the ultrawide zoom, and that 35mm lenses and I have not always been the best of friends.
I like the idea of this 23mm lens, a semi wide normal lens with a f1.4 but as it has been said, that lens looks pretty darn big. It seems like a pretty hard sell for me, I was foolishly hoping for under 700 bucks on this 23mm, 900 seems a stretch too far, especially as I am very interested in the ultrawide zoom, and that 35mm lenses and I have not always been the best of friends.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I'd assumed it would be close to $1000. As others have said look at the more expensive much bigger heavier FX 35/1.4's in the Canon and Nikon systems.
back alley
IMAGES
the new sigma 35/1.4 looks pretty big...
Avotius
Some guy
I wish Sigma would bring out those DN Art lenses for Fuji mount.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Not for me unfortunately.
My much preferred "standard" focal length is 35mm (full-frame).
And the main reason is that it helps my eyes in creating composition that I'm happy with.
While 40 to 50mm focal lengths feel too narrow for me.