Fuji 645 cameras on EBAY

[aghymike]

Hello,

This is my first post on this forum. I am a film student at California State University in Northridge. I appreciate any help I can get, thank you.

I have a 35mm Canon A2 and a plastic Holga, I want to get a meduim format camera.
An SLR med format is way out of my price range and they are usually too large.

Basically I want a $400-600 (mostly?) manual med format that I can carry around.
I'll be using it for landscapes, expiremental, portraits, studio, etc...

Here are the 3 on ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fujifilm-Fuji-G...goryZ710QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fuji-GS-645-fol...goryZ710QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fuji-Fujica-GS6...ryZ97017QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

also
I like the fuji and mamiya 6x7 cmaeras, but they seem larger and bulkier.

thanks,

 

[VictorM.]

Don't forget TLR's-they're relatively cheap and much higher quality than most people need. The Mamiya's even have interchangeable lenses. I'll let others add comments on slr's. They offer Polaroid capability, which for studio and experimental work are very useful.

 

[Doug]

Hi aghymike, and welcome to RFF! I think you may be on the right track, but the above three choices might not be your best bets. The first is a fine camera, but is like a giant point'n'shoot... I have one and like it, but it's set up to do everything automatically from film winding to film ISO setting, focus, exposure, and flash. If this is what you have in mind, that's fine, but if you want manual control of the process, it's possible but awkward.

Your second link is for the original Fuji GS, the folding model with 75mm f/3.4. It's romantic, and historically interesting being the last, I think, of the classic folding roll-film cameras. But the bellows (note seller's comment about replacement) are a chronic weak point unless replaced with much better quality than original. Contemplate the process of shooting with a folder... do you leave it unfolded as you walk about, or do you close it up and then reopen it for each shot opportunity? Though with only a little experience with an old Kodak folder, I concluded that GS is a good carry camera but an awkward one to shoot a lot with.

The third link is to an item with an artificially high price due to collector interest. It's fairly rare, not many made. There is no rangefinder, so focus is by estimation and setting by the lens distance scale. The lens is wide and slow, so this doesn't kill the camera's usefulness, just biases it toward use at small apertures. And the lens IS slow, at only f/5.6 maximum.

If these appeal to you, I'd suggest you search for the GS645S. It was a popular model and many were made. This looks a lot like the third item above, the GS645W, but has a 60mm f/4 lens and a nice rangefinder. I have one of these too, and it is likely to be a better choice at a lower price than the others. I (over)paid $425 for mine several years ago at a camera flea market. Very light, compact, and easy to carry.

 

[wlewisiii]

If the automation of the GA645 in your OP isn't a problem for you then one other Fuji 645 to point out is the GA645Zi. This is very similar to the earlier camera but with a 55mm to 90mm zoom. This is not a large range, by any means, but it does add just a bit more flexability to the camera. I mention it simply because it's the one I've wanted for a long time :angel: Bargain grade cameras go for around $650 at KEH.

There is a nice page here: http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/fujirf.htm giving good basic information on all of the Fuji 645 models.

William

 

[aghymike]

Thanks for all the quick replies. To clarify, I want as much manual control as possible and still a good amount of portability, but I know I will probably have to comprimise one or the other. I didn't realize the first camera from the ebay links is fully auto. (My Canon 35mm is always on Manual mode.)

Doug suggested a Fuji GS645S, one is on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fuji-GS645S-Med...goryZ710QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And that may be the route I go.

However, someone also suggested Kiev cameras to me. These are larger, but they are SLRs and a little less expensive ($100-200). This is also a good option for me because with the added size comes the ability to make sure the focus is correct and not worry about the diffrence between what I see through the rangefinder and what the lens actually sees.

By the way, how bad is that on the Fujis? I can't imagine its worse than the Holga and I can deal with that most of the time.

What I liked about the Fuji cameras (the smaller ones) is that I could bring them with me any where and quickly snap a med format photo. Although, some say that setting the manual controls can take some time. Is this true?

And I guess TLR is also an option for med format. I hear a lot of good things about some of the Yashicas and Minolta Autocords. Agian, these are larger cameras but they are priced well ($100-350) and have full manual controls.

Maybe Ill buy one of each, set them aside and just shoot digital...just kidding.

Thanks

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Check out Seagull brand TLR's on eBay.

 

[aghymike]

I hear that its better to go with a used older model than a new Seagull. Mostly because of lens sharpness, contrast and overall build quality. I haven't used either, but this seems to be the overwhelming opinion on the net.

 

[Doug]

However, someone also suggested Kiev cameras to me. These are larger, but they are SLRs and a little less expensive ($100-200). This is also a good option for me because with the added size comes the ability to make sure the focus is correct and not worry about the diffrence between what I see through the rangefinder and what the lens actually sees.

By the way, how bad is that on the Fujis? I can't imagine its worse than the Holga and I can deal with that most of the time.

The parallax issue comes about as the displacement between the center of the lens and the center of the viewfinder, compared against the distance to the subject. A closer subject, then, has a greater parallax factor than a distant one. The nearer the VF to the lens, the less the effect, and ultimately with an SLR the centers coincide and there is no parallax at all. The SLR brings along some baggage in the mirror mechanism, ground-glass focusing, etc. Modern RF cameras move the framelines in the viewfinder to compensate for parallax error at the distance focused. As you focus closer, the frame moves down and to the right, and in some non-interchangeable lens RF's like the Fuji GS, the frame also contracts at closer distances to correct for the angle-of-view change caused by the lens being farther from the film. We're here entering into some fundamental issues in the choice of SLR vs non-SLR rigs.

The Kiev... I was going to refresh my memory of Kiev medium format models at Fedka.com but I see they have none listed at the moment. Basically there are two very different models... The Kiev 60 is a copy of the East German Pentacon which resembles a Pentax 6x7 only it's in 6x6 square format, or optionally 6x4.5. It's made for eye-level hand-held use, like a big 35mm SLR. I like the concept, having used Pentax 6x7 for many years.

The other one is the Kiev 88, a copy of an earlier Hasselblad model. A fine machine to copy, but the devil is in the details; in the execution and quality control. True for both these cameras but due to greater mechanical complexity especially so for the 88 from what I hear. And what I hear is bad, sometimes so bad the camera cannot be made properly functional. They tend not to be fully functional even upon leaving the factory. This has spawned a small industry of follow-up remanufacturing of new cameras... For more info see Arax at http://araxfoto.com/ Being cautious, and preferring functional equipment, I think Arax is the only source I'd consider for a new Kiev SLR. But I would regard this as an adventurous choice.

 

[Dan Schwartz]

Avoid the Kiev 60/6C

Avoid the Kiev 60/6C

I made the mistake of buying a Kiev 6C, and it's a dawg. The TTL meter is all over the map and byzantine to operate; and at least on mine, higher shutter speeds (1/250th & faster) leave the film frame blank. :bang:

As soon as I shoot some photos, I'll be selling it with an extra TTL metering prism on eBay.

The Kiev... I was going to refresh my memory of Kiev medium format models at Fedka.com but I see they have none listed at the moment. Basically there are two very different models... The Kiev 60 is a copy of the East German Pentacon which resembles a Pentax 6x7 only it's in 6x6 square format, or optionally 6x4.5. It's made for eye-level hand-held use, like a big 35mm SLR. I like the concept, having used Pentax 6x7 for many years.

[By the way, this is my first post: I picked up a gorgeous GA645 yesterday at Adorama, trading in a redundant Mamiya 645AFd lens... But, the camera didn't have a manual. Also, you can find me hanging out in the Film & Processing Forum on Photo.Net]

 

[rool]

I know it is no exactly small, but it is still kind of portable... you could check the Koni-Omega's: 6x7 format, interchangeable and very good lenses, fully manual (you'll need an external meter).
The big pluses are these are cheap and they are rangefinders!

 

[Doug]

By the way, this is my first post: I picked up a gorgeous GA645 yesterday at Adorama, trading in a redundant Mamiya 645AFd lens... But, the camera didn't have a manual.

Welcome to RFF Dan, and I hope you enjoy your monster point'n'shoot! I have the Wi version with 45mm lens. Here's a pdf file download of the camera manual: http://www.cwclemens.com/Fuji GA645.pdf

 

[DougK]

I hear that its better to go with a used older model than a new Seagull. Mostly because of lens sharpness, contrast and overall build quality. I haven't used either, but this seems to be the overwhelming opinion on the net.

Can't prove it by mine... my Seagull 4A-109 is a fantastic camera. I'm willing to concede mine may have come out of the factory on a good day, though.

Back on topic... aghymike, if you're looking at a top budget of $400-$600, may I suggest you check out the used MF SLRs at http://www.keh.com? I was able to purchase a like-new Pentax 645, 75/2.8 lens, and 120 insert for a shade over $500 total. Surprisingly, the camera isn't all that bulky, although it does weigh about four pounds. Mamiya 645 SLR outfits with an 80mm lens and 120 back can be had for somewhat less. KEH grading is conservative too; my camera and lens were graded EX+ but could have rolled off the assembly line last week for all I could see.

I have also owned a GA645 (now sold) and used it to take some of the best vacation pictures I've ever shot. Great camera, very good automation, tack-sharp lens, quirky and awkward manual operation.

I think it will boil down to your preference for an RF-type body or an SLR and what you can get for the money you have to spend. Any of the models mentioned in this thread will serve you well.