kaiwasoyokaze
Half Frame Goodness
totally agreed. i jumped ship from micro four thirds with the ridiculous way they (lumix and olympus) churned out bodies every 6 months or so. and the infuriating thing is that the upgrades were not that substantial at that point when I was in the m43 game.
it's great to see that fujifilm is doing something great at least and offering these updates. my only complaint is the build of the camera (x-e1) is very cheap feeling compared to my old ep3 or gf1.
NicoM
Well-known
I've used the Sony NEX series and the Olympus Pen series cameras and their AF and EVFs are far ahead of the Fuji cameras that I've used. I have not used the X-E2 yet, so I can't comment on that.
I can't say owning the X-E1 was a completely bad experience. In fact, it was far from it. The image quality form the sensor and glass really blew me away.
I don't think I'm being biased here. I owned the Fuji X-E1, was excited about it, but was willing to admit that it was really behind in a few areas. Your experience may vary.
NicoM
Well-known
If you're talking about not having all the features that other cameras do, sure, all cameras have their "deficiencies". What I'm talking about is the frustration a camera brings when the standard features (AF, EVF) don't live up the what the user is used to.
I was willing to accept that the AF and EVF of the Fuji's were in their developmental stages, but after using an NEX 6 and an Oly Pen, the Fuji felt too slow. They were limitations that a lot of people were willing to live with, but I wasn't one of those people.
I've never bought a Canon or a Nikon where I thought, "oh man this is too slow of me". Before the Fuji, I never even thought of returning a camera for any reason whatsoever. Issues like the D600 oil spill are big, but they're not issues with the capabilities of the camera.
Again, don't think I'm being biased here. I loved the sensor and the glass of the Fuji X-E1. In the end, it just didn't feel complete for me (and, evidently, not what a lot of people wanted).
Fuji has done a good job with these updates. My point was just that I feel that Fuji HAD to put out these updates. There are too many used Fuji's floating around right now and if they wan't people to buy into their system, they need to show that their older bodies are still viable.
willie_901
Veteran
Other brands just release new bodies to remediate deficiencies.
I do not see any basis for saying "Fuji HAD to put out these updates". The other brands did not.
I do not see any basis for saying "Fuji HAD to put out these updates". The other brands did not.
goamules
Well-known
I think it's fine for people to like different things. I'm going on a lot of the reviews I've read that say the E-X1 has a lot more right than wrong. I'm not a "specs comparison" person, but a "big picture" person. I wanted the best larger than m4/3 sensor, a nice looking body, a good EVF, and so on, for well under $1,000. I've been focusing vintage lenses manually on my G1 for years, I don't need Focus Peaking. I'll let you know how I think the X-E1 compares to the G1, but I won't be comparing it to the little "credit card" sized NEX cameras, nor the $6,000 Leicas. It should do nicely for my criteria. I believe I'll agree with a lot of reviewers like these:
"...I acquired the Fuji XE1 several months ago after selling my Sony Nex7 and lenses. I made many good images with the Sony but it was missing something for me. Hard to describe really, but it just wasn’t quite right for me. I’ve seen images from many photographers that prove just how good that camera is...."
http://imaginegnat.com/my-fuji-xe1-impressions-and-images/
"The Nex cameras are great nerd gadgets. ...But the joy to use and take pictures or the feel/looks of the camera don't compare to the Fuji. ...This camera [X-E1] on paper looks seriously lacking, more expensive than the competition [when released], EVF lag, 460k vs 921k+ LCDs, shady RAW support etc. In practice, it's awesome. It's looks, feels and operates as a camera. It's a mix of German build philosophy and Japanese practicality..."
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50896012
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
The NEX cameras and Fujis are a lot more alike than they are different.
I considered the NEX-7 pretty seriously and nearly bought one. Tested one for a day. I know I could have made it work for me about as well as the Fujis. Better in some ways, not as good in others. Same goes for the digital Leicas, the A7, etc. All of these cameras are capable of delivering tremendous pictures.
There's always room for improvement but in 2013 the meaningful limitations are not with the cameras. They're with our ability to see and interpret the visual world.
WRT the subject of this thread, it is impressive that Fuji are continuing to invest in software development for discontinued hardware. They don't have to do that, and it's a sign of respect for customers that they are doing it.
I considered the NEX-7 pretty seriously and nearly bought one. Tested one for a day. I know I could have made it work for me about as well as the Fujis. Better in some ways, not as good in others. Same goes for the digital Leicas, the A7, etc. All of these cameras are capable of delivering tremendous pictures.
There's always room for improvement but in 2013 the meaningful limitations are not with the cameras. They're with our ability to see and interpret the visual world.
WRT the subject of this thread, it is impressive that Fuji are continuing to invest in software development for discontinued hardware. They don't have to do that, and it's a sign of respect for customers that they are doing it.
danielsterno
making soup from mud
Agree with all of the Fuji compliments to their commitment to customers. As a x100 13xxxxxx serial number and lucky to never experience the SAB issue- hard to believe that the x100 is functioning better in 12/13 than 2.5 years ago. I use it in manual mode now where I would of NEVER would of thought of it- Thats huge. Still waiting for XPII otherwise very happy with M5/M6 with film and x100 for digital. keep it simple….
goamules
Well-known
On longevity, I would hope an expensive camera would work for at least 5 years. My G1 has shot a ton of photos, and I notice nothing different from it as when it was new. It is strange we don't expect them to last like the old mechanical cameras. I shoot 50 year old rangefinders all the time, listen to 40 year old electronic stereos too!
PhotoMat
Well-known
I have to chuckle when I read people's comments about autofocus speeds of the latest electronic geegaw. Now that the megapixel race is slowing down, it seems as though autofocus speeds have become the latest be-all, end-all criterion for camera buyers. The autofocus capabilities of the current crop of camera are pretty amazing. How did we ever survive in the days of manual focus?
back alley
IMAGES
burancap
Veteran
Agreed, and not just about focus.
How did we ever survive in the days of <fill in the blank>?
I also chuckle ... at our collective whinging about just about everything! I am as guilty as anybody else, but the funny thing is: what a great time to be a photographer, Fujisti or otherwise!
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Why is it strange? In constant (inflation-corrected) dollars I spent less on a new X-E1 than I spent on a new FE-2. I owned four FE-2s and destroyed two of them… To say nothing of an M6 ($1900 new in 1998 equates to ~$3000 today).
goamules
Well-known
Um...I may not be understanding. Are you saying because these cameras today are so cheap, we should expect them to be throwaway? Maybe that's it. But still, I can use half century old mechanical cameras, and I doubt any of these digitals will be working in 15 years. Leica included.
GaryLH
Veteran
Digital cameras are tech based.. Tech moves forward.. U jump in when u want something that the newest tech offers, otherwise u stay on the sidelines until what u have gives up the ghost.
Most camera makers do not control 100% of their electronics. Their supply chain does not keep on producing components after a certain time frame. They need to reallocate the floor space to ever newer next gen components. Thus even if your camera company wanted to keep on repairing that camera, the reality these days is that eventually their hands are tied by their supply chain vendor.
Digital cameras are so much more complicated compared to a m6 or an fe2. Salvaging electronic components from another camera is a possibility, but I suspect these days it is not cost effective compared to the used market for that said camera unless we are talking something as expensive as a Leica digital m.
Gary
Most camera makers do not control 100% of their electronics. Their supply chain does not keep on producing components after a certain time frame. They need to reallocate the floor space to ever newer next gen components. Thus even if your camera company wanted to keep on repairing that camera, the reality these days is that eventually their hands are tied by their supply chain vendor.
Digital cameras are so much more complicated compared to a m6 or an fe2. Salvaging electronic components from another camera is a possibility, but I suspect these days it is not cost effective compared to the used market for that said camera unless we are talking something as expensive as a Leica digital m.
Gary
Jdi
Established
My read of your comment is they are continuing support to stem the tide of people dumping Fuji's. Not sure how you reach this conclusion. Everything I read is the owners are upgrading and sales are doing just fine.
There are 172 NEX-7's listed on eBay compared to 17 XE-1's. My gut tells me Fuji sold about as many XE1's as Sony NEX-7's. And the 17 includes an "ample" number of XE-1's being sold as a result of the XE-2 intro.
PhotoMat
Well-known
Remember when you had to walk over to the TV to flip through the channels? All twelve of them?
JRG
Well-known
Remember when you had to walk over to the TV to flip through the channels? All twelve of them?
What you mean 12? Our TV got three channels, and two of those had a lot of snow!
back alley
IMAGES
3 channels to start off with and i was the (remote) one changing the channels for my folks!!
goamules
Well-known
Theoretically, electronic cameras should last longer than mechanical ones. There are fewer moving parts, and modern chips and electronic components last longer than the ones in the 60s. Yet...I'm right now listening to a 40 year old Sansui receiver, and can go into the other room and play one of two late 1960s guitar amps. A camera ought to last at least 10 years, if not 20. Consumerism drives them to build as cheaply as they can get away with and bank on planned obsolescence. So most (not me) buy the newest, best new thing....every 1-2 years.
GaryLH
Veteran
40 year old electronics of the 70s to early 90s period has simpler discrete ICs.. Today's components are orders of magnitude more complex and densely packed.
Right now for the Leica m8, the component that I am hearing any failure about is the LCD..which is in that 10 year range.
As I said earlier digital cameras unlike film, it is digital technology breakthroughs. So long as u are happy w/ what u got, there is no reason to upgrade until it gives up the ghost... Sit on the side line and wait for something that makes sense to upgrade to.
In the days of film, it was the first gen matrix metering, then the auto focus lenses, then the super fast frame per second, I really don't see any difference. Camera manufactures have always enticed those hard earned dollars from us... The only difference is that with digital tech, those changes are coming faster
. it is still up to u to decide when to jump into the circus. Gary