gdi
Veteran
I am looking for a GSW 690III and just wanted to do a price check - I see them anywhere from $450 to 650+. Most of the cheaper ones are from Japan and likely well, well used. Cosmetics don't bother me much, but I don't care to get one that needs any mechanical or optical work.
Anyone have advice on : 1) good price ( hoping to get one for less than $500US) and 2) reputable sellers that can be relied on?
Thanks
Anyone have advice on : 1) good price ( hoping to get one for less than $500US) and 2) reputable sellers that can be relied on?
Thanks
Scapevision
Well-known
I've bought two 6x9s off Japan through Ebay, both times the seller was reputable, however each time the description didn't quite match what I received. No major problems, but still annoying, be careful as they barely speak English, and it shows. Keh may be a better source, but generally may be pricier. Didn't make sense for me as I am in Canada. So, only choice was Japan.
gdi
Veteran
Thanks - I am finding that KEH prices seem to be out of line for bargain-grade Fujis. Usually I jump all over a nice bargain there. Today, I just received an almost perfect Nikons 35mm lens - bargain for $14.
x-ray
Veteran
I owned a model II and a III at a later time. About the only thing is look out for cracks in the top and outer shell. That would indicate rough treatment and one that may have been dropped. In general if they look rough they've probably had rough treatment.
Unless the frame counter on the bottom is extremely high I wouldn't be concerned. I believe they use a Seiko shutter and they're good for many thousands of exposures with no maintenance.
These are really fine cameras. They're not heavy and they're very easy to use and the optics are first rate.
Not the camera you're looking at but I bought a GS645S from a Japanese seller. It was a fine experience with the camera accurately represented and very fast EMS shipping at very low cost. The one thing I noticed when searching for the 645. Japan must be very humid. Several cameras had rust on strap lugs and one has water condensation In the a VF/RF. Mold also seems to be common in optics and cameras from Japan. I'd certainly look carefully of this and make certain there are none of these problems.
I think I bought my model II locally and the III direct from Fuji. My rep set me up with a dealership in order to buy o e of their large scanners and wound up having the opportunity to buy the GSW690 that the head of Fuji USA had used personally. From previous experiences buying from Japanese sellers I wouldn't hesitate do do so again. I've had several good experiences and no bad.
Unless the frame counter on the bottom is extremely high I wouldn't be concerned. I believe they use a Seiko shutter and they're good for many thousands of exposures with no maintenance.
These are really fine cameras. They're not heavy and they're very easy to use and the optics are first rate.
Not the camera you're looking at but I bought a GS645S from a Japanese seller. It was a fine experience with the camera accurately represented and very fast EMS shipping at very low cost. The one thing I noticed when searching for the 645. Japan must be very humid. Several cameras had rust on strap lugs and one has water condensation In the a VF/RF. Mold also seems to be common in optics and cameras from Japan. I'd certainly look carefully of this and make certain there are none of these problems.
I think I bought my model II locally and the III direct from Fuji. My rep set me up with a dealership in order to buy o e of their large scanners and wound up having the opportunity to buy the GSW690 that the head of Fuji USA had used personally. From previous experiences buying from Japanese sellers I wouldn't hesitate do do so again. I've had several good experiences and no bad.
kuzano
Veteran
Used in the tourist industry....
Used in the tourist industry....
I am led to understand that many of the big Fujis were used to shoot 4 pics per roll in the tourist industry in Japan. That's the reason for the 4 pic-8 pic-16 pic marks on the frame count. Half roll 120, full roll 120 and 220 roll for 16 shots.
There is some good news in that concept. The counter on the bottom counts rolls, so if the camera was used predominantly for 4 pic rolls, the actual frame count is one half of what one would expect. Ie, the count on the bottom would not be count times 10, but count times 5.
The cameras are durable, being a plastic shell over a full metal freme. Frank Marshman and a couple of Fuji repair people all told me to forget the suggested frame service at 5000 count. They all indicated that 15 to 20 K is likely with most of these.
I would simply buy a working, damn the cosmetics, GSW or GW 690, and if I had a problem, send it to Frank for look-see, service or repair.
Frank's prices are the best I have ever paid for service/repair, and he has had about a dozen of my Fuji's in his shop.
I contend that a $500 GSW model III is attainable as long as you are not an Anal Retentive Purist about a scratch, bump, whetever on the body. The optics are recessed enough in the lens that I have never seen a damaged glass.
Every Fujica/Fujifilm I have ever purchased (many) I got on eBay from sellers with much 99.5% feedback or above.
Used in the tourist industry....
I am led to understand that many of the big Fujis were used to shoot 4 pics per roll in the tourist industry in Japan. That's the reason for the 4 pic-8 pic-16 pic marks on the frame count. Half roll 120, full roll 120 and 220 roll for 16 shots.
There is some good news in that concept. The counter on the bottom counts rolls, so if the camera was used predominantly for 4 pic rolls, the actual frame count is one half of what one would expect. Ie, the count on the bottom would not be count times 10, but count times 5.
The cameras are durable, being a plastic shell over a full metal freme. Frank Marshman and a couple of Fuji repair people all told me to forget the suggested frame service at 5000 count. They all indicated that 15 to 20 K is likely with most of these.
I would simply buy a working, damn the cosmetics, GSW or GW 690, and if I had a problem, send it to Frank for look-see, service or repair.
Frank's prices are the best I have ever paid for service/repair, and he has had about a dozen of my Fuji's in his shop.
I contend that a $500 GSW model III is attainable as long as you are not an Anal Retentive Purist about a scratch, bump, whetever on the body. The optics are recessed enough in the lens that I have never seen a damaged glass.
Every Fujica/Fujifilm I have ever purchased (many) I got on eBay from sellers with much 99.5% feedback or above.
mike rosenlof
Insufficient information
I'm pretty sure the odometer counts how many times (divided by 10) the shutter has been released, not number of rolls of film (8 on the 6x9, 10 for 6x7, I guess 9 for 6x8).
The cameras are pretty simple. If they don't look beat up, they will probably work fine. Probably.
The cameras are pretty simple. If they don't look beat up, they will probably work fine. Probably.
gdi
Veteran
Many thanks, X-ray, Kuzano, and Mike. I have to agree that it appears the counter is for shots not rolls - I have seen stamps on the later bodies that say "number of shots x10" (or to that effect)
I agree - I am looking for the $500 gsw iii. It should come around eventually!
Thanks
I agree - I am looking for the $500 gsw iii. It should come around eventually!
Thanks
kuzano
Veteran
Sorry, not true...
Sorry, not true...
The counter on the bottom of all GW/GSW is a roll count. That's why for shutter count, you multiply by ten to get shutter actuations. The reason you multiply by 10, instead of 8 (shots on a 120 roll) is because it take two full advances and shutter actuations to get to frame one.
So, one roll count equals 8 actual images, plus 2 advances to frame one, or 10. Each count on the bottom counter is multiplied by 10 to get shutter actuations.
If The counter on the bottom says 510, than multiply by ten to get a shutter count of 5,100. This is used because the most common film type used is 120 which renders 8 frames per roll.
I've had at least a dozen of these GW/GSW bodies and know the count is roll times ten for shutter count.
The reason I said that many of the Japan camera's may actually be half the count, is because many of the camera's are now surfacing out of the tourist trade where they were often shot with 4 image rolls.
I'm not going to get in a pissing match on this, because its really irrelevant. The shutters are durable and I have never had one fail.
But just so you know and don't make fools of yourselves in an important situation, the count on the bottom of the camera is a ROLL COUNT, NOT A SHUTTER COUNT!!!!!
Sorry, not true...
The counter on the bottom of all GW/GSW is a roll count. That's why for shutter count, you multiply by ten to get shutter actuations. The reason you multiply by 10, instead of 8 (shots on a 120 roll) is because it take two full advances and shutter actuations to get to frame one.
So, one roll count equals 8 actual images, plus 2 advances to frame one, or 10. Each count on the bottom counter is multiplied by 10 to get shutter actuations.
If The counter on the bottom says 510, than multiply by ten to get a shutter count of 5,100. This is used because the most common film type used is 120 which renders 8 frames per roll.
I've had at least a dozen of these GW/GSW bodies and know the count is roll times ten for shutter count.
The reason I said that many of the Japan camera's may actually be half the count, is because many of the camera's are now surfacing out of the tourist trade where they were often shot with 4 image rolls.
I'm not going to get in a pissing match on this, because its really irrelevant. The shutters are durable and I have never had one fail.
But just so you know and don't make fools of yourselves in an important situation, the count on the bottom of the camera is a ROLL COUNT, NOT A SHUTTER COUNT!!!!!
gdi
Veteran
It doesn't bother me one way or another - I believe the shutters are durable and my only need for the counter is to estimate the prior usage. And in the situation you describe - a full 120 roll it wouldn't matter, right? Wind on twice, then 8 frames = 10 actuations, which equates to one roll. I wonder what happens with a 220 roll? Or how the 670 counter would work....
I was just going by the manual which says
"Your camera is provided with a 3-digit shutter actuation counter in the bottom which will tell you how many times the shutter has been used so that you'll know when the camera needs maintenance. It counts 10 shutter actuationsas 1;that is, if it shows 150,the shutter has been actuated 1,500 times. After reaching 999 (9,990 shots) it will return to 000 with 10 more shots."
Again - not that it matters to me - I have only held one of these once!
I am seeing some nice ones that have gone for $500 or less, so I'm optimistic that I can snag one eventually. Thanks for the discussion!
Please feel free to decorate this thread with any recents shots!
I was just going by the manual which says
"Your camera is provided with a 3-digit shutter actuation counter in the bottom which will tell you how many times the shutter has been used so that you'll know when the camera needs maintenance. It counts 10 shutter actuationsas 1;that is, if it shows 150,the shutter has been actuated 1,500 times. After reaching 999 (9,990 shots) it will return to 000 with 10 more shots."
Again - not that it matters to me - I have only held one of these once!
I am seeing some nice ones that have gone for $500 or less, so I'm optimistic that I can snag one eventually. Thanks for the discussion!
Please feel free to decorate this thread with any recents shots!
JChrome
Street Worker
I've opened up the GW690 and played around inside. The only thing actuating the odometer is the shutter. Everytime the shutter is pressed, the odometer is actuated. Thats it. Nothing else touches the odometer. So it would be impossible for it to be a roll count.
Not to mention that the manual says its a shutter count.
It's nothing personal. I just have loads of evidence which support the contrary of what you're claiming.
x-ray
Veteran
The counter is as you say for shutter count. Anyway when you load a roll and line up the arrows on the film with the dots in the back it continues to wind u Tim the first frame is reached. You do not have to fire the shutter before frame one is up.
I've owned two of the 6x9's, a model II and a III and 2 G617's and they all work that way.
I've owned two of the 6x9's, a model II and a III and 2 G617's and they all work that way.
gdi
Veteran
That makes sense - this is how my Mamiya 7II worked - no shutter clicks, just the wind till it stopped. Thanks
EdSawyer
Established
If you had a Mamiya 7II, you have already had a better camera/system than the Fuji. I have both, and the Mamiya definitely has better/sharper/more resolving lenses. The GSWIII is a great camera, and has it's own virtues (6x9 being chief among them, and the single-piece ruggedness), but it's not going to better a Mamiya 7 in most ways. Just an FYI.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
yeah but come on the mamiya with one lens cost like, 3x as much as the fuji.
gdi
Veteran
Yes, I know how good the Mamiya 7II is! I had a great kit, black camera, 150mm, 65mm, and 43mm. There was something else I wanted at the time, so it's gone.
But as Pherdinand said - that kit would be $3k+ vs. $500-600 for a fuji! It is getting to the point that I worry about having too much $ tied up in MF gear.
But as Pherdinand said - that kit would be $3k+ vs. $500-600 for a fuji! It is getting to the point that I worry about having too much $ tied up in MF gear.
EdSawyer
Established
Understandable, and yes, the M7 package is definitely more $ than the fujis. But really, I wouldn't worry about how much is tied up in the gear, lord knows many folks here have way more than that tied up MF stuff. The market for that sort of thing is pretty stable these days, not wild swings or huge value drops over time generally. Some stuff even appreciates! (granted, mostly rarer/vintage stuff like Bessa II with apo Lanthar or Plaubel Makina 67, etc.)
Scapevision
Well-known
i love how a specific question always turns to "you need other gear, it's better"
Prest_400
Multiformat
Of course the Mamiya 7 is a better camera in many ways. The Fujis are based on a Simple & Rugged principle, with basic features and some simplicity on it all.
The lens of the Fuji possibly has origins in LF and is not as technically perfect as the Mamiya's (the 90mm EBC Fujinon). As of the GSW's 65mm, it seems to be an excellent performer from what I've read around.
But of course the Prices are not comparable. You could even get 3 to 4 different MF Fujis (645, 6x9) covering different shooting roles for the price of a good M7.
The 90mm GW's are just the most bang for the buck in MF nowadays IMO, the GSWs prices are a notch above the 90mm version but I think they are worth it.
The lens of the Fuji possibly has origins in LF and is not as technically perfect as the Mamiya's (the 90mm EBC Fujinon). As of the GSW's 65mm, it seems to be an excellent performer from what I've read around.
But of course the Prices are not comparable. You could even get 3 to 4 different MF Fujis (645, 6x9) covering different shooting roles for the price of a good M7.
The 90mm GW's are just the most bang for the buck in MF nowadays IMO, the GSWs prices are a notch above the 90mm version but I think they are worth it.
narsuitus
Well-known
A few years ago, I wanted a Mamiya 7 rangefinder and two lenses but for less than half the price, I could buy two Fuji rangefinders with two lenses.
KEH.com is a reputable seller.
Fuji Medium Format Rangefinders by Narsuitus, on Flickr
KEH.com is a reputable seller.
Fuji Medium Format Rangefinders by Narsuitus, on Flickr
jchfriis
Established
No advice really, but after browsing this forums for a long time I finally pulled the trigger and bought a GSW690 (first generation) in pristine condition for $450, so maybe you should consider looking at I and II also. The lenses are the same and I personally just dont like the plastic on the newer cameras. I'm so looking forward to the result from my first test roll.
Here it is next to my M8.
Here it is next to my M8.