Fuji x100s vs Ricoh GR

[jsrockit]

Image quality? I often equate comparing image quality on today's top models, to counting leaves on two big trees to decide which one has a better shade for me to sit under.

It is becoming that way ... 😀

 

[willie_901]

Better high ISO? Well, the f2 lens gives a stop of advantage, but come on, it's just on par at high ISO when using RAWs: Fuji inflated their ISO values up to 1 stop + it's their NR that gives another stop of "advantage". In fact there's practically no difference in high ISO department between them.

Fuji's ISO may or may not be inflated. The question is inflated compared to what?

Fuji is a member of the Japanese standards organization: Camera and Imaging Products Association (CIPA). CIPA members must measure and publish ISO settings according to one of several CIPA approved methods. Other Japanese brands may use a different CIPA method. Non-Japanese brands likely use one of several methods defined by the International Organization for Standardization. All Japanese cameras don't actually have an ISO, they have a CIPA. Only cameras that strictly use any of the International Organization for Standardization methods actually have an ISO.

If Fuji publishes a deceptive ISO specification they could be exposed, fined or expelled from CIPA. CIPA's other members would benefit by exposing Fuji's deception.

This report indicates the XE-1 spot meter is not inflated compared to a Minolta Auto Meter IVF.

http://www.adrielhenderson.com/blog...1-manual-exposure-are-the-iso-values-inflated


None of this means the exposure you are use to is not different than the exposure you need to use with the Fujis.

The only a single ISO standard measurement procedure one can rigorously apply to all cameras I know of is the one described by DxOMark. No one else uses this method, but it seems the most useful method to me.

 

[Aristophanes]

The CIPA spec is a sensitivity spec as is the ISO standard. But sensors have only 1 sensitivity from manufactured outset. This is where the older measure as noted on our equipment does not correlate with digital. The way sensors work is closer to EV compensation than ISO adjustment.

Therefore the CIPA standard is a recommended not mandated system and is a guideline for notation parameters:

http://www.cipa.jp/english/hyoujunka/kikaku/pdf/DCG-002-2012_E_C.pdf

There is a lot of engineering leeway in interpreting the standard. This is because today's sensor read-outs are no longer linear as the older CIPA and ISO standards assume and what we see when we alter the ISO settings on our cameras. Remember: the CIPA and ISO standards are for notational purposes to reflect something the consumer can understand. These new gen sensors with 1 sensitivity and low-read out noise mess up the notation. DxO obliquely addresses that:

"To be easily understood by photographers, the ISO sensitivity of digital cameras has been defined such that it is similar to the ISO sensitivity of photographic film cameras, thus lower sensitivities require longer exposure for the same luminance to produce the same result. However, just as very sensitive films are known to be very grainy, parallels can be drawn for digital cameras, since high sensitivities are related to high gain and noise amplification."

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/About/In-depth-measurements/Measurements/ISO-sensitivity

So a notation system predicated on a linear increase in sensitivity no longer works when the new read-out noise can be controlled to be effectively non-linear amplification for a given range of exposure exposure values. Those "parallels" DxO speaks of are less relevant:

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/iso/

So to say the Fuji's are fudging is incorrect because the standard units of measure (CIPA and ISO) are not really relevant anymore. No deception.

 

[reniori]

I own both, and I am now carrying both.

A while back in China to carried an x100s and my d800 everyday. 92.4% of my images were in the end taken with the x100s.

I now no longer carry the D800. Since I just got the GR, I am now carrying the X100s and the GR together.

To me they are very different cameras. GR has an unapologetic rawness (18mm) that the X100s cannot replicate. While the X100S demands quieter images and more lingering thoughts, like the better child of the two.

These were taken with the X100S just this trip in China, http://haoyuanren.com/gallery/china2/
I am sure it will be a lot different if I had the GR with me.

 

[willie_901]

I use both of these cameras. The GR is the best pocket digital I've ever owned. Yes, it fits in your front pants pocket. I don't wear baggy pants either. The lens is great, but the high ISO is a notch or two below the X100s. For a camera that does not have a dedicated shutter speed dial and aperture ring, the GR does have a clean and easy to use modern interface. That said, I feel the X100s is the better overall and more versatile camera. Its built in O/EVF finder, its dedicated knobs and rings, its better high ISO and faster lens, traditional body style feels more like a camera, etc. You cannot go wrong with either. Choose based on your priorities. 28mm vs. 35mm, no VF vs. VF, pocketable vs. not pocketable, old school ergonomics vs. new school ergonomics, etc.

These are my thoughts as well. I can't get past having to use an external finder on the GR

I can see how snap focus is fast and easy to use. Yet, I just got my X100 out of the cabinet and in MF mode (which I use with the AFL/AFE button to focus) the camera remembers focus in between power on/power off cycles. So you can preset focus and leave it will stay there all day unless you hit the AFL/AFE button or turn the lens collar.

 

[f16sunshine]

These were taken with the X100S just this trip in China, http://haoyuanren.com/china2013/index.html
I am sure it will be a lot different if I had the GR with me.

Nice set of images!

 

[taemo]

I own both GRv and X100s and I think I'm fairly set on keeping both as they compliment each other very well, I actually sold the X100/s wide converter lens since the GRv is now my 28mm camera.

Early today, I was set on selling the X100s because I thought the GRv was now going to be my main camera as it is very compact meaning I will always have it with me.
Got to my computer, ready to start a FS thread on FM when by faith, I opened Lightroom and went through the pictures that I took with the X100 and X100s, I remembered how great the camera is for travelling and the 35mm focal length.

I've decided that the X100s is going to be my main travel camera.
The Ricoh GR is going to be my hiking/landscape camera.