FujiGuys: X100 Tweets

[videogamemaker]

As far as I can tell, so far the shutter lag is months long as it isn't yet available. Yawn... I would rather watch network TV than speculate what a vapor product is capable of.

How many characters is that? I will ahve to @fujiguys...

Is there a live network TV channel in this sub-forum? I could have sworn it was for talking about the X100...

Fujiguys have a working prototype, this is the best information available outside of website updates and the actual product release. Some of us are enjoying talking about it beforehand and these status updates. If you don't, why are you reading the sub-forum?

 

[rover]

If you don't, why are you reading the sub-forum?

I kinda have to. 😉

That said, yes, wonderful product, maybe.

Ever notice that a Leica M doesn't do much differently than a Minolta SRT?

New toy to do the same old thing. Better? Worst? There will never be any consensous. Just different. That's all.

Unless you enjoy the hype, but I prefer to get my entertianment elsewhere.

Different opinion, just as wrong as your's.

 

[videogamemaker]

I kinda have to. 😉

That said, yes, wonderful product, maybe.

Ever notice that a Leica M doesn't do much differently than a Minolta SRT?

New toy to do the same old thing. Better? Worst? There will never be any consensous. Just different. That's all.

Unless you enjoy the hype, but I prefer to get my entertianment elsewhere.

Different opinion, just as wrong as your's.

lol, whoops,, forgot about that.

I haven't noticed a leica M doing something different from an SRT because I've never shot either. I have shot a canon s90 and a canon 5D and they shoot very differently in hand, and the images they make are practically night and day in web resolution and print and anything other than ideal lighting circumstances.

The X100 looks like it will combine the portability of the s90 with the image quality of the 5D, and I like that a lot, enough to get a bit of jollies from being almost OCD about following the product pre-launch.

That said, Vapor ware probably isn't the best term to use on it, as: Vaporware describes products, usually computer hardware or software, not released on the date announced by their developer, or announced months or years before their release. The word usually implies a negative opinion of a product or developer, and pessimistic uncertainty that it will eventually be released.

 

[rover]

The portability issue is what works most against it to me. The S95 was what I was looking for, truly tiny with very good image quality. I am a Pentax DSLR user, so if I want more in the digital world, that will do fine. I thought the M43 cameras were nice, but in the end having a camera/system between the true small and DSLR just didn't work out in the end. I do think the X-100 is going to be a very nice camera, it just isn't going to fit for me. I am interested to see how it holds up over time, if the market will be sustained over time once the facts of the product line replace the marketing campaign. Only time will tell.

 

[videogamemaker]

The portability issue is what works most against it to me. The S95 was what I was looking for, truly tiny with very good image quality. I am a Pentax DSLR user, so if I want more in the digital world, that will do fine. I thought the M43 cameras were nice, but in the end having a camera/system between the true small and DSLR just didn't work out in the end. I do think the X-100 is going to be a very nice camera, it just isn't going to fit for me. I am interested to see how it holds up over time, if the market will be sustained over time once the facts of the product line replace the marketing campaign. Only time will tell.

I went on a trip with an s90 and a 5D with 50mm lens. Switching back and forth depending on my day's activities. 5D when I was feeling like a photographer, s90 when I was in a rush to get somewhere.

During the day, with photos of the city, I'd say the s90 held up great, and I loved the ease of frame changes with the zoom lens, esp with the click stops.

The second I wanted to take a photo of my husband, or the light started to fade, that quality similarity shot out the window.

I can certainly see some photographers liking the s90 for their work type, but for what I like to do, give me some shallow dof and low light performance where the dynamic range doesn't compress to the tonal range of the Shephard Fairey hope poster.

 

[GSNfan]

#Fuji X100 has 49 point metering area selection

Is that for metering or Auto focus? I thought it was AF that worked by points not the camera meter system.

 

[videogamemaker]

Is that for metering or Auto focus? I thought it was AF that worked by points not the camera meter system.

It could be that they are confused and meant 49 focus points, but it could also be that if you change from center weighted or full frame metering to spot metering, it uses the area below whatever focus square you selected, making it 49 focus AND metering points. I'll RETWEET to ask. I didn't even have a twitter before this camera, and I'm only using it to follow and ask the fujiguys.

 

[Frankie]

It could be that they are confused and meant 49 focus points, but it could also be that if you change from center weighted or full frame metering to spot metering, it uses the area below whatever focus square you selected, making it 49 focus AND metering points. I'll RETWEET to ask. I didn't even have a twitter before this camera, and I'm only using it to follow and ask the fujiguys.

It is 49 metering points. That was known since Photokina.

No words on focus point yet, but I have seen pictures/videos showing selection for 25 focus zones (5 x 5 rectangles). My memory needs a bit of backward research support.

And here is the link to that video [top one]: http://photorumors.com/2011/01/13/demo-of-the-fuji-x100-hybrid-viewfinder/

And, Fuji's own descriptions about user selectable focusing zones:
http://www.finepix-x100.com/en/your-questions-answered/hybrid-viewfinder

 

[ChrisP]

So focus is mechanical and focus by wire... A little bit of a contradiction there? Personally I would much prefer mechanical and I think almost everyone would prefer that as well

 

[tapesonthefloor]

Focus is definitely by wire, similar to most modern M/A dSLR lenses. I'm more curious now about the rest of the controls. I suppose I'll have to ask the Fuji Guys and see if they have an answer: is the aperture dial also fly-by-wire? I have a feeling that it is based on the beeping sounds we heard with each selected aperture, but I'd like to hear for sure one way or another. I wonder if it'll be able to keep up with the nimble photographer, if so... when I use (borrowed!) Leicas, sometimes I jerk wildly from a pinhole all the way to wide open in a flash (using a minute amount of force with one finger, I shouldn't even need to mention), while swinging my body to catch a moving object. I'm able to do this because there is no lag with mechanical parts. Will the aperture on the ex-hundred react similarly?

 

[tapesonthefloor]

@ChrisP: Oh, right you're referring to the tweets. The "Guys" originally said they thought the camera might focus mechanically, but they then corrected themselves and identified it as fly-by-wire. Any further propagation of the "mechanical" tweet can be chalked up to bad editing. This run-down includes both, as well.

 

[Chris101]

17. #fuji X100 manual focus is fly-by-wire. Focus ring can be adjusted to rotate clock-wise or counter clockwise. 8:22 PM Jan 3rd via ÜberTwitter

1. @dcharlwood #fuji X100 manual focusing is mechanical. 6:36 AM Dec 16th, 2010 via TweetDeck in reply to dcharlwood

Am I missing something?

EDIT: Whoops - I posted a minute too soon!

 

[GSNfan]

From all the marketing shenanigans that camera companies have employed, this Fuji guys dynamic duo has to be one of the worst. it seems these guys don't even know the basics of digital cameras.

By the way, who're these fuji guys? Are they photographers or just some random internet guys that fuji picked, thinking they best represent the demographic of potential X100 buyers?

 

[Frankie]

So I said: The Fujiguys' Tweets are useless.

and the esteemed Mr. Hicks had to say:

Quite unlike other Tweets, then?

......just because I say the obvious?

And now someone realized the same?!

 

[videogamemaker]

Focus is definitely by wire, similar to most modern M/A dSLR lenses. I'm more curious now about the rest of the controls. I suppose I'll have to ask the Fuji Guys and see if they have an answer: is the aperture dial also fly-by-wire? I have a feeling that it is based on the beeping sounds we heard with each selected aperture, but I'd like to hear for sure one way or another. I wonder if it'll be able to keep up with the nimble photographer, if so... when I use (borrowed!) Leicas, sometimes I jerk wildly from a pinhole all the way to wide open in a flash (using a minute amount of force with one finger, I shouldn't even need to mention), while swinging my body to catch a moving object. I'm able to do this because there is no lag with mechanical parts. Will the aperture on the ex-hundred react similarly?

Seeing as the aperture doesn't engage till you press the shutter, I'm sure it will keep up with you. The beep isn't indicative of electronic or manual aperture control, as either can pass along the change needed to make a beep.

So I said: The Fujiguys' Tweets are useless.

Feel free to ignore the thread then. So far they have tweeted a few bits not on the fuji website, and while they seem near-incompetent, I prefer this to only completely silent pre-production holders.

From all the marketing shenanigans that camera companies have employed, this Fuji guys dynamic duo has to be one of the worst. it seems these guys don't even know the basics of digital cameras.

By the way, who're these fuji guys? Are they photographers or just some random internet guys that fuji picked, thinking they best represent the demographic of potential X100 buyers?

They strike me as typical marketing dudes. They look like official Fuji employees, but man, they are both too slick and not slick enough at the same time, and just don't come off as photographers. They'd be ok enough working a booth at a convention, but at least with the X100, they are fairly poor faces for the company.

 

[Frankie]

@ChrisP: Oh, right you're referring to the tweets. The "Guys" originally said they thought the camera might focus mechanically, but they then corrected themselves and identified it as fly-by-wire. Any further propagation of the "mechanical" tweet can be chalked up to bad editing. This run-down includes both, as well.

Out of This run-down link, I spotted this line:

• Fuji X100, manual focus, there will be focus distance for both OVF and EVF with option for manual focus check (zoom in centre).

I read it as a "hint" [???] that a magnifi'able patch-like focusing aid option in OVF or EVF mode. Given the source, I have high doubts but also high hope.

Much of their tweet are stuff already known since Photokina, new items that interest me are:

• 0.7s sleep to wake lag...acceptable.
• "Commander" mode"...unexplained still. We know there is a lever for it...but for what command?

They are very poor reporters.

 

[videogamemaker]

Out of This run-down link, I spotted this line:

• Fuji X100, manual focus, there will be focus distance for both OVF and EVF with option for manual focus check (zoom in centre).

I read it as a "hint" [???] that a magnifi'able patch-like focusing aid option in OVF or EVF mode. Given the source, I have high doubts but also high hope.

If this feature works like all other cameras, it just means that whenever you start turning the manual focusing ring/knob/switch, the center of the image in the EVF or LCD will zoom in so you can check focus. On the m4/3 and nex and canon DSLR's with live view, this is how it works. Start manually focusing, middle of screen (though it's adjustable where on many cameras, so you can have it off center) magnifies 5x or 10x, and after X seconds of not turning the ring, it goes back to full screen view. It's really useful for checking fine focus, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will only be available in EVF mode and on the LCD. Though like you say, having it in OVF mode as a patch would be oh so sweet, and should be completely possible.

Commander mode on other flash systems means it uses a system of pre flashes to force other compatible flashes to also preflash, it meters the resulting preflash in the exposure meter, then uses another pre flash to tell those other flashes what power level to be at to match your in camera settings. Then when you take the photo, the commander makes them flash to contribute at that power level.

The nikon (and to lesser extents, canon) systems work very well for this. You can even have it set for the commander not to contribute anything itself to the exposure.

You could place a 2nd flash on a stand atop a cabinet at a party, aimed up toward the ceiling, and walk around with the camera, having the flash exposure on group A set to 0 flash exposure comp (or if there is a 2nd one across the room on group B, B can be -1 flash exposure comp) and every time you pre focus, the commander will have them flash, it sees what power they need to be for where you are aiming to get a 0 exposure from flash on group A and a -1 exp from flash on group B, then sets them off when you take the photo, in less than a second or two. There are lots of annoying pre-flashes from the commander and the other flashes, but for weddings or parties it *can* be acceptable, though I don't use it.

To me the cool new tweets in addition to the .7 second wakeup was the sweep panorama (gimicky but a nice extra that can be fun for panorama shots) and the digital zoom which I hope makes it into the still image capability, for portrait framing assistance.

 

[Frankie]

......It's really useful for checking fine focus, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will only be available in EVF mode and on the LCD. Though like you say, having it in OVF mode as a patch would be oh so sweet, and should be completely possible.......Commander mode......digital zoom......

Many had pined for some form of focusing aid/patch/RF[parallax-wedge] in the OVF...me too. If an SDK is available, I can transplant a virtual RF-like parallax-wedge that I [we] already have in a hurry. This is a fundamental element in my world of photogrammetry.

I have little interest in flash photography. WRT to commander mode, I was hoping for some hints that the "convenient commander lever" in the thumb position can be assigned to "commands" such as far-mid-near focal distances...dynamite for manual zone-focusing applications.

Digital zoom is another way of saying cropping. If the 12Mp image is cropped to 6Mp, the 35mm eqv. lens becomes a 46mm eqv. [My R-D1 is a 6Mp camera and can support a good 8 x 10.] I have long conceptualize the X100 having a 35~46mm zoom lens...plus a step or two forward and backward.

 

[videogamemaker]

I have little interest in flash photography. WRT to commander mode, I was hoping for some hints that the "convenient commander lever" in the thumb position can be assigned to "commands" such as far-mid-near focal distances...dynamite for manual zone-focusing applications.

Digital zoom is another way of saying cropping. If the 12Mp image is cropped to 6Mp, the 35mm eqv. lens becomes a 46mm eqv. [My R-D1 is a 6Mp camera and can support a good 8 x 10.] I have long conceptualize the X100 having a 35~46mm zoom lens...plus a step or two forward and backward.

The commander mode is one of those feature things like video, where some people will really like it's inclusion, and other people will never touch it. I personally won't use it in all likelihood (I have the far more accurate outdoor skyport triggers if I want flash triggering), but I don't mind it being there.

I know digital zoom is essentially cropping, but rather than trying to imagine how far to be away to avoid distortion, and looking at the person's face in the middle of the frame, imagining it larger, is not as useful as actually seeing it larger in a digital (and completely fake) zoomed in equiv of a 105mm lens. I know it will end up making it only a few megapixels, but that's fine for a portrait in a pinch. Do you know what the calculations would be in terms of actual res with a 3x zoom? Does that mean it would be 4mp, or 2mp?

As for an SDK, it's highly highly unlikely. I'd love it, honestly, but I don't think a single camera manufacturer has released an SDK. Reverse engineering has been done, ala CHDK in canon P&S and Magic Lantern for the 5D II, but they had to reverse engineer the firmware. Here's to hoping the X100 has enough grip into the market to encourage a few resourceful hackers into adding some features if Fuji leaves them out.

 

[videogamemaker]

It is 49 metering points. That was known since Photokina.

No words on focus point yet, but I have seen pictures/videos showing selection for 25 focus zones (5 x 5 rectangles). My memory needs a bit of backward research support.

[/COLOR][/URL]

They clarified via twitter that they did indeed mean 49 *focusing* points. I've attached an image that demonstrates, notice how it says "af-s" on the right side? YOu can see it in the image attached to this post of mine.

I am not sure what the 5x5 squares are in the engadget video. It could be an older version of AF select where you only have 25, it could be a simplified version for easier scrolling+selecting in the EVF (which is nice, then each of the 25 would be using a larger area), or maybe these are the metering areas. I could see it having a 49 point mode, a 25 point mode, 9 point, and just center.

They also announced maximum exposure time is 60 minutes, and:

shutter lag is very minimal, next video hopes to show this as my finger will be filmed depressing the shutter