seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the new replies and info.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
Yep. Peroxide can do some fungus killing, as will alcohols (take your pick: methanol, ethanol, isopropyl, R-OH). It is good to kill both the existing fungal hyphae and as many spores as possible. I haven't killed fungi (in lenses) for a while, but it seems like using some alcohol, followed by some peroxide is good overkill 
As far as I know, there are little to no enzymes in your breath (or my breath) unless you exhale sharply and dislodge micro-scale material in your lungs and bronchia. Those organics/tissues may indeed have some enzymes (they are cells after all), but those enzymes are for cellular function, not fungus-killing. What you would actually get from strong exhalation breath is a lot of fungus food (anything organic) and warm moist fungus "spa-like" conditions. In which case, you would definitely be encouraging fungus on the lens. I did see that some amylase compounds may prevent or disrupt biofilm formation by certain bacteria. Amylase is the main enzyme in saliva. I could find nothing about amylase and fungi in the literature though.
As far as I know, there are little to no enzymes in your breath (or my breath) unless you exhale sharply and dislodge micro-scale material in your lungs and bronchia. Those organics/tissues may indeed have some enzymes (they are cells after all), but those enzymes are for cellular function, not fungus-killing. What you would actually get from strong exhalation breath is a lot of fungus food (anything organic) and warm moist fungus "spa-like" conditions. In which case, you would definitely be encouraging fungus on the lens. I did see that some amylase compounds may prevent or disrupt biofilm formation by certain bacteria. Amylase is the main enzyme in saliva. I could find nothing about amylase and fungi in the literature though.
seany65
Well-known
@rfaspen: Thanks for the new info.
seany65
Well-known
I've just received a Pentacon Electric 29mm lens and there was a tiny amount (only just noticeable when looking through a reversed, hand held 50mm lens) of what could be fungus on the outside of the back element, but when I cleaned it with my cloth and screen/lens cleaning spray-which is stated to contain NO alcohol-this possible fungus seemed to disappear.
Is this possible? Can ordinary cleaning spray get rid of fungus?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Is this possible? Can ordinary cleaning spray get rid of fungus?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Steve M.
Veteran
It probably would be a good idea to give it a wipe w/ alcohol just in case. The kind of fungus that you are encountering is not what I usually run into. I usually see the more serious type that is between cemented elements. About all you can do w/ that type is sit the lens in bright sun for a few days. UV light will kill fungus, your breath will not.
Just as a bit of science info, the human mouth is one of the nastiest things on the planet when it comes to bacteria and germs. Even worse than a dog, which is scary. Over 615 types of bacteria at last count. So it would be smart to swish some alcohol in your mouth too. Preferably a single malt 20 year old scotch.
Just as a bit of science info, the human mouth is one of the nastiest things on the planet when it comes to bacteria and germs. Even worse than a dog, which is scary. Over 615 types of bacteria at last count. So it would be smart to swish some alcohol in your mouth too. Preferably a single malt 20 year old scotch.
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the info Steve. I'm not sure in this last case it is fungus, but it looked a bit like it. As I said previously I've cleaned it with a cloth and cleaning spray.
I was going to look at it next Wednesday or Thursday to see if it's come back and decide what to do then, but I may leave it in the "sunlight" (Ha! Just outside Manchester near the middle of Winter, fat chance of much sun.) as a precaution.
Do I take it that the "between cemented elements" type does not respond to UV?
I was going to look at it next Wednesday or Thursday to see if it's come back and decide what to do then, but I may leave it in the "sunlight" (Ha! Just outside Manchester near the middle of Winter, fat chance of much sun.) as a precaution.
Do I take it that the "between cemented elements" type does not respond to UV?
David Hughes
David Hughes
peterm1
Veteran
"I would like to ask if anyone has heard about enzymes in human breath being able to kill fungus?"
I would say to the shop assistant: pull the other one it plays "Jingle Bells". Have you ever made the mistake of using a spoon in a nice newly opened pot of yoghurt, eating from the spoon then double dipping with it back into the yoghurt? Yuk you say - well in my defence I was young and stupid and it was my yoghurt in any event.
But if you try this, a few days or weeks later the yoghurt will be covered with nice green or black fungus courtesy of your mouth bugs - something which if refrigerated never seems to happen to yoghurt even long after it becomes inedible. I learned the hard way that indeed the human mouth is full of nasties. Kept in check by the body's immune system but just waiting to rush out and form a nice colony on an unsuspecting pot of yoghurt. Or lens, I would argue..............the human immune system generally works fine inside the body but not so much when exported to the interior of an expensive camera lens. Or so I think.
Seriously if out in the field and I need to blow dust off a front lens element and do not have a blower brush I will use my breath but I will also clean the surface with alcohol (and yes as far as I know it is safe for coatings) as soon as I can. I prefer isopropyl alcohol as it seems to smear less than the common methylated alcohol found in hardware stores. I do not believe that it will necessarily get rid of well established fungus on its own though. But it seems to certainly kill spores on the exterior of the lens, which might somehow migrate to the interior and eventually grow into fungus there. And in any event it certainly dries the exterior of the lens of moisture. And it never hurts to be careful.
One home remedy for getting fungus off an element following lens disassembly is to wipe it generously with Ponds Cold Cream, leave it for a while and then wash it off giving the element a final clean with alcohol. It sounds like an urban myth to me but lots of people swear by it. I have never tried it so cannot authoritatively opine. Some people claim that it is first necessary to use chemicals to get rid of the fungus (the most usual nostrum is to soak in an equal parts mixture of hydrogen peroxide and ammonia) and THEN use the cold cream to gently polish out any residual marks left by the fungus on the element's surface. As per this thread: http://photographytoday.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1214
I would say to the shop assistant: pull the other one it plays "Jingle Bells". Have you ever made the mistake of using a spoon in a nice newly opened pot of yoghurt, eating from the spoon then double dipping with it back into the yoghurt? Yuk you say - well in my defence I was young and stupid and it was my yoghurt in any event.
But if you try this, a few days or weeks later the yoghurt will be covered with nice green or black fungus courtesy of your mouth bugs - something which if refrigerated never seems to happen to yoghurt even long after it becomes inedible. I learned the hard way that indeed the human mouth is full of nasties. Kept in check by the body's immune system but just waiting to rush out and form a nice colony on an unsuspecting pot of yoghurt. Or lens, I would argue..............the human immune system generally works fine inside the body but not so much when exported to the interior of an expensive camera lens. Or so I think.
Seriously if out in the field and I need to blow dust off a front lens element and do not have a blower brush I will use my breath but I will also clean the surface with alcohol (and yes as far as I know it is safe for coatings) as soon as I can. I prefer isopropyl alcohol as it seems to smear less than the common methylated alcohol found in hardware stores. I do not believe that it will necessarily get rid of well established fungus on its own though. But it seems to certainly kill spores on the exterior of the lens, which might somehow migrate to the interior and eventually grow into fungus there. And in any event it certainly dries the exterior of the lens of moisture. And it never hurts to be careful.
One home remedy for getting fungus off an element following lens disassembly is to wipe it generously with Ponds Cold Cream, leave it for a while and then wash it off giving the element a final clean with alcohol. It sounds like an urban myth to me but lots of people swear by it. I have never tried it so cannot authoritatively opine. Some people claim that it is first necessary to use chemicals to get rid of the fungus (the most usual nostrum is to soak in an equal parts mixture of hydrogen peroxide and ammonia) and THEN use the cold cream to gently polish out any residual marks left by the fungus on the element's surface. As per this thread: http://photographytoday.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1214
seany65
Well-known
Thanks for the info peterm1.
I won't disassemble any lens 'cos I'd never get it back together. If I did manage that I'd still have bits left over.
I won't disassemble any lens 'cos I'd never get it back together. If I did manage that I'd still have bits left over.
NorpA
Established
Hi there, I often read peroxide 3% as bactericidal for infected lenses. Question, do you have experience with single step contact lens cleaning bath? The solution is indeed based on hydrogen peroxide (3%) + sodium hypochlorite . Asking just because this solution is always available at home.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Windex has cleaned away fungus that I couldn't get off with alcohol or cleaning fluid or lighter fluid. I don't know why so many people are paranoid about using the stuff, it works, and even if it could damage a lens, if it's already got fungus on it you have nothing to lose.
View Range
Well-known
I have had great success using the hydrogen peroxide / ammonia mixture to remove fungus on vintage lenses. Final cleaning with distilled water and alcohol helps to get perfectly clean glass. Fungi can do some etching of the glass; etching can't be cleaned off.
Other parts of the lens assembly should also be cleaned to get rid of all fungus spores.
Fungi can be either aerobic or anaerobic. Anaerobic fungi means that the fungi grows in the absence of oxygen, and oxygen is toxic to these fungi. Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is an excellent source of oxygen in liquid form. Breath is also rich in oxygen but dissipates rapidly. Ammonia, naphtha (lighter fluid), alcohol and other cleaning agents get rid of the fungi remains after the hydrogen peroxide has done its work. Windex contains alcohol along with a bunch of other stuff. Windex is probably OK, but denatured alcohol is free of all the other stuff in Windex. I have only had trouble with lens coatings on old Leitz lenses being removed by cleaners.
Hydrogen peroxide can be used as a propellant when it is heated. It produces steam (H2O) and free oxygen. Hydrogen peroxide doesn't burn; it disassociates producing high pressure gas to flow through a nozzle. In some more efficient rockets, hydrogen peroxide has been used to an oxidizer to deliver oxygen to combust with a hydro-carbon fuel. The small amounts of hydrogen peroxide you would keep at home for lens cleaning is perfectly safe even if your house burns down.
Other parts of the lens assembly should also be cleaned to get rid of all fungus spores.
Fungi can be either aerobic or anaerobic. Anaerobic fungi means that the fungi grows in the absence of oxygen, and oxygen is toxic to these fungi. Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is an excellent source of oxygen in liquid form. Breath is also rich in oxygen but dissipates rapidly. Ammonia, naphtha (lighter fluid), alcohol and other cleaning agents get rid of the fungi remains after the hydrogen peroxide has done its work. Windex contains alcohol along with a bunch of other stuff. Windex is probably OK, but denatured alcohol is free of all the other stuff in Windex. I have only had trouble with lens coatings on old Leitz lenses being removed by cleaners.
Hydrogen peroxide can be used as a propellant when it is heated. It produces steam (H2O) and free oxygen. Hydrogen peroxide doesn't burn; it disassociates producing high pressure gas to flow through a nozzle. In some more efficient rockets, hydrogen peroxide has been used to an oxidizer to deliver oxygen to combust with a hydro-carbon fuel. The small amounts of hydrogen peroxide you would keep at home for lens cleaning is perfectly safe even if your house burns down.
Beemermark
Veteran
Vodka, or Ever Clear (151 proof), works great. Just a dab will do the lens, the rest will do you.
NorpA
Established
Not really paranoid, simply I do not recognize what is in that solution. I understand it is something to clean glasses, but I am not sure if commercialized here in EU, reason why I was referring to chemical components, like math they stay the same regardless the brand/market.
In any case I approached this experiment with a super cheap specimen. I cleaned carefully everything with the contact lens fluid (hydrogen peroxide (3%) + sodium hypochlorite), now I will let it rest for a couple of months. If I do not see proliferation I will approach my real target lens.
Note these two lenses, bought as bargain on the second hand shop are carefully isolated (physically under glass with silica gel) from the remaining cameras and lenses and are my gym to study and experiment (for instance waiting the summer to test the UV effect).
seany65
Well-known
Nope, I've only ever used ordinary lens cleaning kits. The most recent I've tried (actually "Screen Cleaning Fluid" and the blue cloth, that is a bit like a very small towel, that it came with), is the only one I've ever used that hasn't left any streaks.
If I had any of the cleaning stuff people have mentioned in this thread, I'd be able to try it on a slightly battered Rollieflex 3.5B, that looks to have fungus at the back of the viewing lens and possibly a bit on the taking lens, then it would only need the shutter servicing, that I've been having a look at on behalf of a charity shop I volunteer at. I think they'll have to list it on ebay as "spares or repairs".