250swb
Well-known
I have been using the M mount adaptor for a little while now and there are two differing conclusions to the idea that the G1 affects the image quality, or doesn't affect it.
The first thing to remember is that the Four Thirds sensors are designed to be used with near telecentric lenses, where the light path from the lens to sensor is as near a straight line as possible. In addition the part of the image circle used is a small proportion of that which is theoretically possible and is why Olympus and Panasonic lenses are so well corrected and sharp edge to edge.
With these two things in mind the image quality of a wide lens used on the G1 is disappointing looking at the edges and corners of the image. The IQ falls off because of the light spread and angle it is reaching the sensor, and this wouldn't be apparent on film or a larger conventional FF type sensor. But as soon as you get to a 40mm lens and up the overall IQ is at least equal to what you would get on film, if not better because so many parameters are more controllable. The Bokeh looks the same to me from a 50mm Summicron as it does on Velvia, and the sharpness is unaffected, which isn't surprising when recently the G1 was shown to give a higher resolution than the Nikon D3.
Steve
The first thing to remember is that the Four Thirds sensors are designed to be used with near telecentric lenses, where the light path from the lens to sensor is as near a straight line as possible. In addition the part of the image circle used is a small proportion of that which is theoretically possible and is why Olympus and Panasonic lenses are so well corrected and sharp edge to edge.
With these two things in mind the image quality of a wide lens used on the G1 is disappointing looking at the edges and corners of the image. The IQ falls off because of the light spread and angle it is reaching the sensor, and this wouldn't be apparent on film or a larger conventional FF type sensor. But as soon as you get to a 40mm lens and up the overall IQ is at least equal to what you would get on film, if not better because so many parameters are more controllable. The Bokeh looks the same to me from a 50mm Summicron as it does on Velvia, and the sharpness is unaffected, which isn't surprising when recently the G1 was shown to give a higher resolution than the Nikon D3.
Steve
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
Thanks Steve. So... do you think it will be possible for ANYONE to design a fast wide lens for these small sensor cameras?
ampguy
Veteran
my thoughts
my thoughts
I think it could be possible, but only with Panasonic's assistance since their RAW lens corrections are not in the open right now. Price might be another barrier.
The additional proprietary RAW options and metadata support of camera specific maker lens and sw always gives them a slight advantage over 3rd parties lens suppliers.
my thoughts
I think it could be possible, but only with Panasonic's assistance since their RAW lens corrections are not in the open right now. Price might be another barrier.
The additional proprietary RAW options and metadata support of camera specific maker lens and sw always gives them a slight advantage over 3rd parties lens suppliers.
250swb
Well-known
So far neither Olympus or Panasonic have shown any desire with four thirds to build a fast and wide lens. At the moment I think the real problem they have is not the designing of such a lens, but the eventual size of it and its impact on what is supposed to be a miniature system.
The new Panasonic 7-14mm is supposed to be a little jewel of a lens, but only f4. This is mitigated on the DOF front by the inherent depth of focus that a 7-14mm would have anyway in normal shooting, and perhaps limiting even an f1.4 lens to significant DOF effects only with close ups. And while f4 isn't a fast speed yet again this is mitigated a bit by the image stabilisation making slower shutter speeds practical.
So perhaps this reflects the way Olympus and Panasonic are looking at the specification of their lenses, and also in keeping the faster speeds to the longer lenses where it makes more difference to the hand holdable performance of the lens?
Steve
The new Panasonic 7-14mm is supposed to be a little jewel of a lens, but only f4. This is mitigated on the DOF front by the inherent depth of focus that a 7-14mm would have anyway in normal shooting, and perhaps limiting even an f1.4 lens to significant DOF effects only with close ups. And while f4 isn't a fast speed yet again this is mitigated a bit by the image stabilisation making slower shutter speeds practical.
So perhaps this reflects the way Olympus and Panasonic are looking at the specification of their lenses, and also in keeping the faster speeds to the longer lenses where it makes more difference to the hand holdable performance of the lens?
Steve
djonesii
Well-known
C mount on film?
C mount on film?
For the flowers, as near as I know, there is no way to even attempt this on 35mm as the lenses are 16mm movie lenses.
I have tried indoor color, no flash, and given up on it, b&w works out good, but in 35mm, I just could not get nice clean images. MF with the Bronica RF645 gives me a shot at it, but the Fuji GA645 with it's little built in fill flash gives digital a run for it's money.
Dave
C mount on film?
Dave... nice images. Now... go try to make the same images with those same lenses, but mounted on a film camera. Then come back and tell if you see differences.
For the flowers, as near as I know, there is no way to even attempt this on 35mm as the lenses are 16mm movie lenses.
I have tried indoor color, no flash, and given up on it, b&w works out good, but in 35mm, I just could not get nice clean images. MF with the Bronica RF645 gives me a shot at it, but the Fuji GA645 with it's little built in fill flash gives digital a run for it's money.
Dave
Benjamin
Registered Snoozer
Can the kit lens do this?
Carl Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 @ f/2.0
Carl Zeiss Sonnar 50/1.5 @ f/2.0
KEH
Well-known
CV 35/1.4 MC - a lens I was never thrilled with on the RD1. But it seems quite lovely on the G1. Zone focused at F8.
Cheers,
Kirk
mawz
Established
There's a few other things that need be considered.
Remember the crop. If the lens's signature at wide aperture is defined by any aspect of the edge performance (vignetting, softness, non-flat field rendering) you simply won't see it, or at least that portion of it. My Nikon 35mm f1.4 AI-S becomes rather boring at wide apertures because of this.
Remember the pixel density. The G1's sensor is extremely demanding on lenses. It has over twice the pixel density of the M8 (The M8's sensor is almost exactly twice the size) or your average high-MP FF DSLR. Consider what a 24MP M8 or 48MP D3 would demand for lens performance even in the sensor. This means the kit lens is a truly stunning design with regards to resolution. It has to be to deliver adequate results from the G1's sensor. This also means that any lens not capable of delivering very high resolution numbers will not stand out when compared to the kit lens. Conversely lenses with high centre performance and poor edge performance may be better on the G1 than they are on larger formats.
Telecentricity matters. Realistically you're going to want SLR lenses or native lenses for the wide focal lengths due to this. A cheap Tamron 28/2.5 Adaptall outperforms most of the 28mm RF lenses on the G1 for this reason. Its not a serious issue with 35mm+ lenses. This also means that native m43 lenses are going to require processing adjustments for optimum performance.
Remember the crop. If the lens's signature at wide aperture is defined by any aspect of the edge performance (vignetting, softness, non-flat field rendering) you simply won't see it, or at least that portion of it. My Nikon 35mm f1.4 AI-S becomes rather boring at wide apertures because of this.
Remember the pixel density. The G1's sensor is extremely demanding on lenses. It has over twice the pixel density of the M8 (The M8's sensor is almost exactly twice the size) or your average high-MP FF DSLR. Consider what a 24MP M8 or 48MP D3 would demand for lens performance even in the sensor. This means the kit lens is a truly stunning design with regards to resolution. It has to be to deliver adequate results from the G1's sensor. This also means that any lens not capable of delivering very high resolution numbers will not stand out when compared to the kit lens. Conversely lenses with high centre performance and poor edge performance may be better on the G1 than they are on larger formats.
Telecentricity matters. Realistically you're going to want SLR lenses or native lenses for the wide focal lengths due to this. A cheap Tamron 28/2.5 Adaptall outperforms most of the 28mm RF lenses on the G1 for this reason. Its not a serious issue with 35mm+ lenses. This also means that native m43 lenses are going to require processing adjustments for optimum performance.