Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
An electric is capable of mind numbing power and starship acceleration. I’ve no doubt the 2030 Ford Mustang will be a 1500 hp coupe with a 1.5 second 0-60. The Cobra version, for 2031, will no doubt offer more power. •••. (and yes there will be snotty kids driving it drunk at night)
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I was actually talking about teenagers and young adults who aren't married or have kids. I agree that, except for those living in a large metro area with public transportation, married couples with kids likely do have a car (and many of them move out to the suburbs in order to get a large enough place they can afford -- whether buying or renting). And I believe people are getting married later also -- that's a long-term trend.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Let's hope the brakes are up to the challenge....
markjwyatt
Well-known
If the deceleration is constant, and the car can decelerate as fast as it accelerates (i.e, no skidding), then it will still take 66 feet to stop. Add reaction time (say 0.5 s) so another 44 feet, means 110 feet total.
cassel
Well-known
Plus you "grab more electrons" when braking in an EV - I use the brake pedal way less in the Volt (plus it has a cool paddle on the steering wheel for re-gen)
hap
Well-known
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Then I’ll see semi and dump trucks as electrical, OP statement might be something representative for real. As of now in left and pro climate saving Torontostan they don’t even have electrical trains connecting suburbs. It is all on locomotives burning gasoline heavy fractures, just like semi and dump trucks.
markjwyatt
Well-known
There are quite a few electric (and fuel cell) Semi concepts out there. Not surprisingly, there are dump trucks too ( https://www.popularmechanics.com/te...6/worlds-largest-electric-vehicle-dump-truck/)
JeffS7444
Well-known
Unfortunately, the March 11, 2011 incident at the Fukushima power plant in Japan probably ended the chance of seeing any new nuclear power plants being approved in the USA any time soon.
But even if we had cheap nuclear power today, I think that much of what we think of as the postwar car-centric American Lifestyle was never sustainable - we've just been borrowing from future generations.
With their "Setsuna" concept car, Toyota explored the question "What if cars were treasured as heirlooms?"
https://global.toyota/en/detail/11559474
Obvious advantage of wood is that, well, it grows on trees, at least the ones which haven't been reduced to ashes. Whereas even a Tesla automobile contains a lot of materials which have a limited lifespan yet which are not easily recycled or processed into something useful.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
The big problems that folks don't want to face are the hypocrisy of electrical and the inefficiencies of it. The transmission lines and the grid necessary to support this move doesn't exist and will be a national project on the order of the creation of the Federal Interstate system if it is to work at all. Don't even get me started about how this power is generated. There is no such thing as making more energy than the potential energy which is contained in one unit. I'm saying that if you're burning fossil fuels to generate electricity to send out over power lines then to dump in a car, that is inherently wasteful. There is always loss, some bleeding of power here and there because of inefficiencies in the stem between pulling that fuel out of the ground to creating torque with it in the motor of a car. If these vehicles are powered by now-existing, largely fossil fuel generation, all the individual drivers are doing is unburdening themselves of their personal carbon footprint, which instead is a cloud out in the suburbs or rural area, choking our wildlife and contaminating our water. Just kicking the can down and across the street, so one doesn't have to look at it, but it's still one's own trash.
The only way to make electric cars environmentally friendly (as can be) is to use solar, hydro, or wind generation. Other than that, an electric car powered by a fossil fuel plant somewhere else, is more wasteful than an in-tune fossil fuel powered car. My 1972 Mercedes-Benz reliably gets 32+ mpg. I have a range of about 400 miles on one tank. There is no existing electric car out there that can take my 4,300lb car 400 miles on one charge. My old 1978 Toyota Corolla got 41 mpg, as measured in 2002. We had this efficiency thing under control in the mid to late 70s, done with innovation on already existing technology.
What about diesel fuel? Diesel technology is far more environmentally friendly now than back in the days of black smoke belching Detroit diesels, which are still very efficient for internal combustion engines. These days, we have bacteria and algae that can digest any cellulose material to produce a cleaner and more environmentally friendly version of diesel fuel. Even bio-diesel, made from largely soy and rapeseed, is far more clean burning than the dinosaur fuel we all know and love. This is before the addition of catalytic reduction, which drastically reduces harmful emissions. Really, if you look at efficiency, follow the money and what is the most efficient way of moving material is turbodiesel internal combustion engines, or diesel/electric engines, if it were any other way, the people who have money to make and money to save on how commodities were being moved would have gone there. Semi trucks and trains would burn gasoline, instead of diesel, LPG or light distillate. Ships would do the same thing.
I'm all for saving the planet and I absolutely believe climate change is a man-made real thing that is going to make life much more difficult for future generations, but I also think that innovating the technologies we have now, instead of coming up with more junk for people to buy, use, and sell, is the way we'll save the planet and ourselves. Until we come up with a totally clean way of generating power and an extremely efficient way of transmitting that power, personal electric vehicles will not be an answer to anything other than unburdening ourselves of our perceived fossil fuel usage, while that fuel has instead just been burned out in the burbs somewhere.
Phil Forrest
The only way to make electric cars environmentally friendly (as can be) is to use solar, hydro, or wind generation. Other than that, an electric car powered by a fossil fuel plant somewhere else, is more wasteful than an in-tune fossil fuel powered car. My 1972 Mercedes-Benz reliably gets 32+ mpg. I have a range of about 400 miles on one tank. There is no existing electric car out there that can take my 4,300lb car 400 miles on one charge. My old 1978 Toyota Corolla got 41 mpg, as measured in 2002. We had this efficiency thing under control in the mid to late 70s, done with innovation on already existing technology.
What about diesel fuel? Diesel technology is far more environmentally friendly now than back in the days of black smoke belching Detroit diesels, which are still very efficient for internal combustion engines. These days, we have bacteria and algae that can digest any cellulose material to produce a cleaner and more environmentally friendly version of diesel fuel. Even bio-diesel, made from largely soy and rapeseed, is far more clean burning than the dinosaur fuel we all know and love. This is before the addition of catalytic reduction, which drastically reduces harmful emissions. Really, if you look at efficiency, follow the money and what is the most efficient way of moving material is turbodiesel internal combustion engines, or diesel/electric engines, if it were any other way, the people who have money to make and money to save on how commodities were being moved would have gone there. Semi trucks and trains would burn gasoline, instead of diesel, LPG or light distillate. Ships would do the same thing.
I'm all for saving the planet and I absolutely believe climate change is a man-made real thing that is going to make life much more difficult for future generations, but I also think that innovating the technologies we have now, instead of coming up with more junk for people to buy, use, and sell, is the way we'll save the planet and ourselves. Until we come up with a totally clean way of generating power and an extremely efficient way of transmitting that power, personal electric vehicles will not be an answer to anything other than unburdening ourselves of our perceived fossil fuel usage, while that fuel has instead just been burned out in the burbs somewhere.
Phil Forrest
Beemermark
Veteran
Your electrical bill includes 3 different charges. One is from the power plant that produces the power, one is to transmit the power to your region, and the last from your local company to distribute the power to your house. All utilities produce some of their own power to some degree but in times of high demand (or a source outage) they can buy power from a regional group of utilities. The power is bought auction style, so price can soar if a number of different utilities are trying to buy power. And yes, California buys a lot of it's power from AZ which still has large coal plants and 3 Nuclear plants. High demand in CA may also mean high demand in AZ, so the AZ utility may use most the power it produces for local consumption. CA is in dire trouble already because putting all their eggs (solar and wind) in one basket is a problem at the end of day when both solar and wind productions drops off dramatically, and this is before the 3 nuclear plants shut down. The solution for CA politicians are back up batteries. They have no clue the size that the batteries would be required and the fact batteries have a maximum life of 4 hours.
CA has mandated all cars will be electric in the near future. Yes manufacturers built electric cars before WWI. There are reasons they dropped electric and went to gasoline. Gasoline has the highest energy density (KW/KG) at the lowest price for transportation. The fuel with the highest energy density at the lowest cost for power plants is nuclear followed by coal. There is existing technologies that could replace gasoline (propane & natural gas are already in vehicles) but that doesn't appeal to the New Green Deal folks. Currently most lithium car batteries are imported from China, 80% I think. Yes GM is building a $2B battery factory - which will produce enough batteries to build 100,000 cars per year. Scale that up for GM to produce enough batteries for the 8 million gasoline powered cars it sells each year. Then think of the environmental damage in building those batteries (China doesn't worry about that too much), let alone with what do you with all those batteries when it time to go to the landfill.
Worried about climate change? Trial technologies were under trial to pull greenhouse gases from the atmosphere and reuse the methane, Co2, etc before 2008. https://phys.org/news/2020-07-technique-capture-carbon-dioxide-greatly.htmlThose technologies received little government funding and then in '08 we've gone full tilt with the government spending billions to push wind and solar. Wind and solar will never provide the necessary energy to fuel a country. If you want to go that way we would need a full scale was to decimate the world's population.
Glad I got all that off my chest. Can we go back to cameras?
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
markjwyatt
Well-known
True, but the reasons why they switched then do not really apply today. Electric cars are viable today. I do not support forcing a switch, as I think there are potential benefits (no pun intended- or was there?) without having to use big government to force people out of gas/diesel cars. Electric cars are doing fine without being forced into play, and I am not convinced (for a number of reasons, some spelled out in this thread b y various posters) that they solve as many problems as claimed. They are a viable and interesting alternative, especially if you generate your own electricity (solar).
I think what makes them viable today is battery technology. Benefits include mechanical simplicity, efficiency, and great torque. Drawbacks include range and lack of charging stations (stations are increasing rapidly). Range is pushing 400 miles (under ideal conditions).
hap
Well-known
Much of this documented in a book Case For Fossil Fuels. Although that sounds unharmonious to many ears, the point of it was stated above in a Chapter Wells to wheels (ie the efficiency argument). And yes, the smoke and carbon has to be burned and exhausted somewhere while others are virtue signaling in their electric cars.
We will innovate . there will be a hierarchy of power sources depending on circumstance and location.
hap
Well-known
Yes, cameras and phones are huge consumers of electrons.....and getting even more so . When I use my mechanical cameras I am mostly using electrons to pump protons for ATP. I probably do not eat more because I use a camera. So pretty efficient.
Ronald M
Veteran
I was visiting a friend last winter and observed “hers” battery Porsche plugged in. Later she asked to borrow hubby’s gas model.
I will drive 20k tops in 8 years, the life of a $8000 new battery. It is basically not economical. So I buy a new battery or receive nothing as a used car.
I will drive 20k tops in 8 years, the life of a $8000 new battery. It is basically not economical. So I buy a new battery or receive nothing as a used car.
besk
Well-known
"Change is already well underway in the USA."
Wish I could afford a Volt. BTW, the 2013 Leaf has far less range than the newer models.
I want an EV. But will keep my 2005 Ford Ranger for trips to the farm and carrying things ETC.
Wish I could afford a Volt. BTW, the 2013 Leaf has far less range than the newer models.
I want an EV. But will keep my 2005 Ford Ranger for trips to the farm and carrying things ETC.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
Hurry up and wait...
Hurry up and wait...
I could easily adjust to an electric vehicle for my 7.5 mile each way daily commute for work.
However by the time I could afford one I will be retired; then I may not even own a car.
Chris
Hurry up and wait...
I could easily adjust to an electric vehicle for my 7.5 mile each way daily commute for work.
However by the time I could afford one I will be retired; then I may not even own a car.
Chris
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Quarry trucks were hybrids for many decades. Diesel engine, but each wheel is rotated by electric engine. It is 1980 technology, at least.
I'm talking about regular dump trucks driven on the roads, not street illegal quarry trucks your link is about.
Our family was set to get Leaf Nissan in 2018. A.k.a EV. We have missed it by two weeks time gape. We did voted for better party to govern our miss-fortunate province and they canceled fifteen thousands dollars rebate for EVs. "Nobody's is perfect".
We went for Black and Dicker quality Nissan Micra assembled by next to slaves labor in Mexico.
They are paid next to nothing per hour and car screams about it.
Its 1.6L engine eats more than Ontario assembled Toyota RAV4 2L AWD Hybrid, which we lease also from 2019, but for much more money.
Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
Dangers of slow speed pedestrian accidents are real. While at speed there is noticeable tire noise, in city conditions the chronically unaware phone holding mask wearing citizen is not especially aware of an electric vehicle nearby.