Get 'Em While You Can

K

Ken Tanaka

Guest
Not to spread gloom on your weekends, but our beloved, but financially troubled, Leica has fallen even more deeply ill. It seems that the change-over in CEO's in January and the announcement of even worse earnings have sent its stock to the basement. (For the price of a new M7 and a few lenses you could own a measurable slice of the company itself.) The Frankfurt Borse apparently halted trading on Leica stock towards the end of Friday's session. (It will likely resume Monday.)

In brief, the situation does not look promising for this tiny company.

There's been an ongoing discussion on this subject at the Leica forum for the the past 48 hours. (See: http://www.leica-camera.com/discus_e/messages/2/113324.html?1108750834 )
 
This is a terrible turn of events (I just read an e-mail from a friend that writes for photo magazines, he likened it to riding a train wreck). I'm so immersred in the cameras we discuss here, committed to film, and somewhat isolated living in the middle of nowhere that I feel a little like an ostrich when it comes to what is happening with film photography in the broader sense. I have always hoped that Leica would remain viable for those that prefer film and their level of quality...let's hope for the best!
 
Bad news indeed - I saw it yesterday on photo.net, and actually read the announcement on offical Leica web site...
Let's hope for the best...

Denis
 
lets hope canon buys Leica - just to have as a show piece - and then fit the M and the R with the 16 MP sensor from the 1Ds mk II - with a promise under some old Soelmian law that the Leica brand and quality has to be preserved as an cultural important something - like unesco does with sites all over the world - to far out ??
 
RubenBlaedel said:
lets hope canon buys Leica - just to have as a show piece - and then fit the M and the R with the 16 MP sensor from the 1Ds mk II - with a promise under some old Soelmian law that the Leica brand and quality has to be preserved as an cultural important something - like unesco does with sites all over the world - to far out ??
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Sounds like a great plan to me! Canon/Nikon et al. have been good at maintaining quality. I have a horrible memory but I think one or two of my Leica lenses were Leitz designed/Japanese manufactured and the quality seemed the same as the German and Canadian produced lenses -- I didn't nit-pick them but they all seemed good to me.
 
Figures, I buy one of these things, expect parts to be available for repairs forever, like it has always been, and the f'ers go belly up on me.

Hope nobody has an ala carte order they are waiting on.
 
Leica always seemed to be in a no-win situation to me. They're selling to the very highest end of a shrinking niche market within the shrinking film market.

Even worse, their biggest competitor is themselves; since RFF has been in existence, does anyone remember anyone here buying a NEW Leica? How about a new Leica lens? I don't. There's been oodles of used Leica equipment bought and traded, but that doesn't help the company.
 
bob shell on the cvug list has a theory, that maybe leica will be bought out by panasonic (they already partner), that panasonic will dump the r cameras and start making r lenses in canon and nikon mounts, that panasonic will come out with a new m version and a digital, full size sensor m.

if true, this could be a good thing.

joe
 
That's not a bad deal Joe, I have used several Panasonic digicams with Leica lenses and they are very nice, I think Gene recently purchasd one.
It is sad that one of the few/only companies still dedicated to film might be meeting it's demise, if they don't come up with a digital solution soon they will surely be circling the drain.

Todd
 
Hermes has deep pockets, but Leica does need to forget about digital (they simply can't compete), sell the R lenses in Canon/Nikon mount as Joe says, and come out with an inexpensive M in which you get what you pay for. They can use an Asian partner to manufacture.

The Leica name still means a lot and I'm sure Hermes is aware of that. MB and BMW successfully went down-market - Leica can too.
 
Leica do a lot of things apart from cameras, is this downturn related to the camera business or the overall business?

I think Leica should concentrate on making film bodies and lenses. Let someone else make digital rangefinder bodies and sell lenses instead, and mechanical camera bodies.

I think Leica should introduce a line of light lenses, perhaps even bring back some old classic designs. That means slow lenses like the Elmar 50/2.8. Such lenses can be sold for less money and they are very useful as well. When hiking I rather carry a light lens than a fast one. Konica made f2 lenses for 35-50 and f2.8 outside. Zeiss seems to go the same path. None of them are really light.

Leica offers fast lenses, but hardly anyone seems to care about light lenses with perhaps the exception of Voigtländer, though several of their slow lenses seems to have some trouble with vignetting or distorsion wide open. One exception is the Heliar 50/3.5 which is just lovely and light. I can basically use it at any aperture setting without really sacrifacing anything. I use it indoors with 400 film at 1/15 and get great results. It does need some reasonable indoors light. It will not work when gloomy, but I seldom get any good photos in such conditions anyway if I use faster film. It is often just to dull light.

The Summicron 35 pre-ASPH lens is small and could be brought back in the lineup. Then make a line of high quality lenses that can be in the 2.8-3.5 (perhaps even f4) range that works great at all apertures. When will we get that Anastigmat 50 mm f/3.5 as a separate lens?
 
JohnM said:
Leica always seemed to be in a no-win situation to me. They're selling to the very highest end of a shrinking niche market within the shrinking film market.

Even worse, their biggest competitor is themselves; since RFF has been in existence, does anyone remember anyone here buying a NEW Leica? How about a new Leica lens? I don't. There's been oodles of used Leica equipment bought and traded, but that doesn't help the company.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the point I've made at the Leica forums. Yes, I've purchased all of my Leica products new in the past few months (M7, 35mm, 90mm, and just this week a 21mm) But I'm certainly an oddball, at least among those who discuss their gear on the Internet (which might actually be a small group in itself).
 
It seems what old cameras, leicas and all film cameras actually, is for someone to be able to produce a ccd that can fit in old cameras taking the place of film canisters.
Can you imagine the impact of being able to shoot an M2/3/4 with old lux and crons on a digital film? It would be a riot!

Years ago a company went belly up trying to produce something like this. I read a photo mag about it. It only functioned in B mode and took 1 min to shoot a photo.
 
Follow-up:
Leica's shares closed 30% down on Friday (18 Feb), basically in the tank. (See a stock chart here.)

According to a recent post in the Leica forum, an investigation into the company's financial statements is being launched by the German Council on Foreign Relations.

Matters would seem to be darkening.
 
If Panasonic buys Leica, I hope it's part of a plan to develop a superb electronic viewfinder and build a world-class system around it. That's the next major step in digital cameras, right? I'm seeing a FourThirds body with Leica lenses (not M-mount, though). Full frame sensors and dSLRs are a transitional form, and Panasonic has no commitment to them. They can start almost completely from scratch.

As far as the M-system goes, I guess they have the resources to keep it going, albeit in a more affordable, modernized form with the occasional commemorative for the collectors. I wouldn't be surprised if all they kept were the lenses and sold the rest to Konica Minolta. A Hexar RF with a Leica M rf/vf would be awesome, especially if they could get the silent motor advance back and shorten the shutter lag.
 
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It may be very difficult for Leica to survive. I've been reading photo forums for the last few years and in the online sector almost everyone buys *used* Leicas. Leica have to sell *new* product to stay alive as a company. They're certainly in a tight place. Very expensive in a niche market within a dwindling film-camera market. When the pros are selling off their Hasselblads to get Canon 1Ds MkII digitals, the prospects for Leica look pretty grim. Hasselblad may not survive either. The high-end Canon's are eating their business -- pros are not buying into Hassy digital in any great numbers. I don't think any mergers or takeovers can alleviate the fundamental issue that the photo world has simply gone in a different direction than everyone expected.

It's painful for an old-timer like me to watch this change. Nothing against digital (I like and use) but should these companies not survive, I'll miss them as icons of luxurious excellence.

Gene
 
Well... amidst all my Leica junk, there's one thing I did buy new: my 'cron 50/2. Richard Osterling sold it to me right before they went up in price in early 2004. At least I won't feel too guilty...

Let's keep an eye on this. I tend to be sickeningly optimistic about these things; remember Ilford? It didn't quite go belly up, so this will be another case of loud bells... only.

Or so I fervently hope... :(
 
I tend to be optimistic about this as well. If Cosina and Zeiss-Ikon are getting INTO the game at this point in time, there must still be a market. Like airlines, it isn't a matter of whether people still need to fly and whether all airlines must necessarily be losing propositions, it is a matter of running things the right way, e.g. Southwest airlines versus <insert here major airline> ;-) Hopefully there will be some sort of takeover that retains the M product line and lights a fire under the digitial M. fingers crossed
 
On the bright side Leica, as we know it, survived the depression and WWII early on in it's life as a 35mm camera company. Lets hope that they are as resilient today as they appear to have been then. In todays economy the number of people with incomes large enough to make the discreationatory spending of $10,000 for a very basic film camera system ( M plus two top line lenses ) is shrinking. Thank you globalization. I would not consider pros as part of the equation as they are going digital for the most part. The mind set of most consummers today is vastly different in that they expect cheap and ever changing, I will not say improving, goods and would look at a product like a Leica as a bit of a costly museum piece. Even if they had the money they would likely not buy it. Leica may wind up a victim of the times and it's own myopic view of the world. If Leica survives it will not likely be in it's present form . I agree with Gene in that I will miss Leica, if it disappears, as a icon of luxurious excellence and there are not many left.

Bob
 
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