Getting back into Leica - M10 or M240 or something else...?

[mrtoml]

I miss the rangefinder experience and I am about to retire in a few months. I have been contemplating getting a used digital Leica as a retirement gift to myself. I used to own a couple of M6s and various Bessas in the past as well as a Fuji X-Pro 1 and 2.

Research suggests that the M240 would be a good deal. I can probably pick one up for around £2000. Next up might be the M10 but these are considerably more expensive used (around £3500). Is the M10 worth the extra grand or so? I could get the 240 and have a lot of cash for more lenses. I am thinking of a total budget of around £4-5000.

I also would like 28, 50 and 90mm lenses. 50 being my favourite focal length. 50/2 ZM Planar will be my first choice (I have owned this lens before). Suggestions for 28 and 90 would be useful. I also own a set of Nikkor AIS manual 35mm lenses which I can presumably use via an adapter.

As always thanks for any opinions or advice.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Planar ZM 50 build was most awful I ever used. Optically one of the best, with lack of Leica colors.
For digital latest CV lenses should cover 28, 50. 90 plenty of Leica, not too expensive.

One thing with digital Leica you might keep in mind.
They don't offer long support after digital camera is discontinued. M240 been discontinued long enough to become single use camera in next couple of years.

I got one of last made M-E 220, they were selling refurbished from M9 series not so long time ago and ditched support couple of years later.
They quit from X series support too early as well.

With M10 you will have more time with available support.
And who knows for how long they will provide M240 batteries.

I don't like cameras without third party batteries....

 

[james.liam]

If you're used to the size and haptics of the M6, an M10 (and M11) will be more familiar. There was a bulkiness to the M240 that made me pass on it, though it is a fine camera and a good value on the 2nd hand market; suggest you try one out it to see if its thicker silhouette feels right to you. Must concur with Ko.Fe in re: fickle Leica product support for digicams and OEM batteries. A serious consideration since no quicker way to fry a pricey camera than mystery PRC-made batteries of unknown capacity, circuitry and discharge rates.

 

[mrtoml]

Thank you, both. These are very good points. I had not considered the lack of support issue.

That does push me more into M10 territory.

 

[JohnWolf]

I owned an M246 but could not get along with the body thickness. I know it doesn’t bother some at all. People say it’s not much thicker, but that wasn’t my experience and I let it go. I now use an M10. Much nicer handling.

John

 

[JeffS7444]

I guess it all depends on what your expectations are: Variations of the Leica M film cameras have been in production since the 1950s, so they've tended to feel like "forever" purchases. But the digital cameras really are consumer electronics.

 

[TL7]

Get a later model MP 240 in dentist level usage... LN cond. This should last awhile and you can still buy batteries so buy 2 or 3 and call it a day. And you get video too.
Thats what I did last Jan and couldnt be happier. Stan Tamarkins father lives in CT and is retired but still sells on the side and will give you a great deal w/Leica 1 year warrantee.

 

[Out to Lunch]

I am about to retire in a few months

Congratulations!

 

[Freakscene]

Congratulations on retiring. Work is, work.

I strongly recommend the M10 if you want to use any adapted lenses. The M240 series live view is slow and in practice it’s hard to love the focus point to use the magnified view which you’ll want to use at least some, if not all the time. The only advantage an M240 has is battery life. Everything else is better in the M10. From a usability perspective, everything.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Also check if you'd need to send the camera to Germany for rangefinder adjustment: pricey and slow. Cheers, OtL

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I upgraded to the M10-P from an M-P 240 (the upgrade cost me >$3,000). So $1,000 more for an M10 compared to an M240 would be well worth it IMHO.

The M10 cameras have better dynamic range, better ISO performance, and are closer in size to Leica M film cameras (about the same size as an M7). Although I really liked my M-P 240 I feel the advantages of the M10-P were well worth what it cost me.

In my view, about the only advantage to an M240 series camera would be battery life (if you stay away from video and live-view), which is ~15% better compared to M10 series cameras, and the video option (but the sound is terrible).

 

[Bingley]

I don’t disagree that the M10 is a better camera overall than the M240, although you rightly point out that getting an M240 would save you some cash for lenses. In 2019, I bought a new Leica M-E 240, which was a limited run and improved M240 (weather sealing, bigger buffer). This run seems to have sold out by the end of 2019. I’ve use my M-E 240 very extensively, taking it on two photo workshops to Europe, a roadtrip to the Southwest, and taking hundreds of photos of my granddaughter, who was born in 2020. Apart from routine maintenance (one RF alignment and a couple of sensor cleanings), it’s been trouble free. Yes, it’s thicker, and probably heavier, than an M10, but not outrageously so. The battery life is really good: I got a day’s worth of photos out of a single charge during workshops in Venice and Paris. If you can live w/ the thicker body, an M240 might still be a good bet. Interestingly, Matt Osborne (of Mr.Leica.com fame) decided not to update to an M10 from his M240 (which I gather he’s still using) because he didn’t think the improvements justified the price. That said, when my M-E 240 finally dies, I’ll look for a used M10 to replace it.

 

[shawn]

M 240 is just over 8mm thicker. For some that is a big deal, for others it isn't. I had mine in a Luigi case with a grip bump on it and a Thumbie to make it more comfortable to hold. M 240 has a larger battery 1800mAH vs 1100.

The M10 has the ISO dial, a viewfinder that is supposed to be a bit better with a 28mm (more eye relief I think), can shoot faster and has about half a stop more DR at low ISO and about a stop at the top end of the M240. The M10 goes higher.

M240s go for about $2k a M10 is going to be around $4k+.

 

[brusby]

For the cost of a single M10 plus the much more expensive viewfinder, I'd buy two M240, equip one with a 50mm and one with something wider like a 28mm or 35mm so I could do shoots without having to change lenses and having vastly better battery life, all the while producing images that for most purposes are indistinguishable from those produced by M10. If I needed better live view, I'd just make one of 'em an SL.

 

[mrtoml]

Thanks for all the replies. It is not an easy decision because of the price difference. The M10 is obviously the better option, but nearly double the price.

I am still thinking M10 at this point - with 2 lenses it would still be in budget. I am also concerned about longevity as I won't easily be able to fund a replacement if something goes wrong which also points to the later model M10. The M240 also looks much bulkier than I am used to (I liked the M6 a lot in the hand).

How much does RF alignment cost and is it usually an issue with the M10? Can it be done DIY or is it imperative to send it away every so often?

 

[wlewisiii]

This is my daily carry:


M 240 in a Luigi case with a thumb thing in the hot shoe. I really don't notice the supposed "thickness" and I shut off the video bits. It was significantly cheaper than any more recent model and that got me many more wonderful lenses from my limited budget.


Unless you're getting the M10-R (40 MPX) or the Monochrome, I'd recommend the M 240 over the M10 until you're sure you really want to stick with this path. You can always upgrade later.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

How much does RF alignment cost and is it usually an issue with the M10? Can it be done DIY or is it imperative to send it away every so often?

Not sure why some needs RF alignment rather than something is really wrong done.
I knocked off RF at film M and M-E 220. Both times it was not due to the use. Film one was dropped and prism has to be reglued. Digital, I mounted lens after wrong re-assembly.
And realigned it back.

Perhaps from 240 and later RF is not robust anymore and goes of self alignment...

 

[mrtoml]

So it was 4 definitely in favour of the M10 and 4 in favour of the 240 🙂. I am still on the fence myself.

I might be able to get an M240 and one lens to try out the experience (there was as an M240 going yesterday at Red Dot in London for £1800). If I like the experience then upgrade to M10 when I retire and get more lenses. I guess that the camera will hold its value.

Doing more research I think the main concerns with the 240 are the higher ISO performance and age of the camera.

 

[wlewisiii]

So it was 4 definitely in favour of the M10 and 4 in favour of the 240 🙂. I am still on the fence myself.

I might be able to get an M240 and one lens to try out the experience (there was as an M240 going yesterday at Red Dot in London for £1800). If I like the experience then upgrade to M10 when I retire and get more lenses. I guess that the camera will hold its value.

Doing more research I think the main concerns with the 240 are the higher ISO performance and age of the camera.

This might be slightly useful, from another thread. I posted an image talking about the blown highlights in an images (all on me) but at ISO6400 using a wide open Canon 50/1.4 there was plenty of light at 10:30 pm the other night.

Why meterless cameras are important to photography

There are a lot of grey areas to this argument. Let me reflect on this a bit to avoid causing an incident and diffuse the situation. I wouldn’t want to be put on the spot. Arguments - pro and con - could move the needle either way. Anyway you look at it, you need to keep a sunny disposition...

rangefinderforum.com

The age is real. OTOH, I haven't had any issues with mine. (knocks on wood 😉 )

 

[pgk]

To go back to the OP, I'm surprised how cheaply some of the Summarit (90 & 75) lenses still are currently in the UK and even from some well known dealers who offer good warranty. They are great performers, 6-bit coded and if you are happy to buy one which is externally less than mint (the rubber grips can 'whiten') then they are great value. Comine these with an M240 the 50 Planar and perhaps a 28 asph and you would be within budget and have some great glass provided you don't need fast glass. The only thing that I would say is that having used a mix of 6-bit and uncoded lenses, I currently have slower 6-bit lenses which saves constantly messing with menus ......