Melvin
Flim Forever!
There are so many variables here. Are you using a stop bath? That also is important. I tried using plain water once, and before long I was getting gray prints.
Getting Blacks on Wet Prints
- Thread starter JeremyLangford
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dfoo
Well-known
I never use a stop bath other than water, and never had problems, other than the fixer not lasting all that long. Its more likely to be as Al said, underdevelopment, underexposure of the paper, or simply low contrast negs.
ElectroWNED
Well-known
I don't see why you wouldn't use a stop bath w/ indicator... $6 for a ton of stuff- a capfull w/ the water and you're set.
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sepiareverb
genius and moron
Lots of folks are afraid of stop bath it seems. Don't get it myself either. Must be some macho thing.
dfoo
Well-known
Why introduce yet another chemical in the darkroom? I don't see the need for it.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Well, having the much more expensive fixer last longer for one...
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
There really are so many variables. I have no idea if I developed my negs wrong. They are 35mm 400 Tr-X and I developed in class with my teacher's chemicals (Developer was D-76) and her times/agitation techniques. All I really know is that on the contact sheets, the blacks/whites look perfect.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Is there an honest to goodness photo shop still in Knoxville? A place where you can ask questions? Who maybe can direct you to somebody who'd know? It seems like your teacher isn't much help!
Merkin
For the Weekend
I assume you are using resin coated paper? If you accidentally bought fiber based paper and everyone else is using rc, you will get different results.
When i was using RC, and I was doing contact sheets, I elevated the beseler enlarger halfway up the frame, set the lens to f/8, used either a 2.5 filter or no filter, and used 8 seconds as my start time, then developed for 90 seconds in a 1:10 solution of sprint developer, which is basically d-76.
If nothing else, try a different enlarger in the darkroom. perhaps the bulb is on the way out.
Check the height of the enlarger head. the higher the head is, the more time and light you need. It sounds like you have the head cranked all the way up to the top.
A good test for you would be to find a friend in the class who has had no problem making a correct contact with their negatives, and try making a contact of their negatives on the enlarger they use. If it doesn't come out correctly, compare notes with the person who was able to get it right. If it does come out right, try the same procedure with your negatives. If it comes out wrong, you have either mis-exposed or mis-processed your negs.
ETA: I misread your post. I take it you are having trouble with your final print. Again, check the height of the enlarger head. If you are trying to crop out a significant portion of your neg, and you have the enlarger head up high, you will need more time and more light, and you will be more likely to need a number five filter. Find out how much time you need to get your blacks right, how much time you need to get your whites right, and then use a combination of dodging and burning to get a good final print.
When i was using RC, and I was doing contact sheets, I elevated the beseler enlarger halfway up the frame, set the lens to f/8, used either a 2.5 filter or no filter, and used 8 seconds as my start time, then developed for 90 seconds in a 1:10 solution of sprint developer, which is basically d-76.
If nothing else, try a different enlarger in the darkroom. perhaps the bulb is on the way out.
Check the height of the enlarger head. the higher the head is, the more time and light you need. It sounds like you have the head cranked all the way up to the top.
A good test for you would be to find a friend in the class who has had no problem making a correct contact with their negatives, and try making a contact of their negatives on the enlarger they use. If it doesn't come out correctly, compare notes with the person who was able to get it right. If it does come out right, try the same procedure with your negatives. If it comes out wrong, you have either mis-exposed or mis-processed your negs.
ETA: I misread your post. I take it you are having trouble with your final print. Again, check the height of the enlarger head. If you are trying to crop out a significant portion of your neg, and you have the enlarger head up high, you will need more time and more light, and you will be more likely to need a number five filter. Find out how much time you need to get your blacks right, how much time you need to get your whites right, and then use a combination of dodging and burning to get a good final print.
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
There's Thompson Photo.
But I have received ridiculous amounts of information on this forum the forum I was a member of before this one. (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/)
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JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
My darkroom day is monday so I can experiment soon. I'm gonna make a contact sheet and when the blacks come out good, I'll keep the enlarger at the same height/aperture/time and see how that goes.
dfoo
Well-known
The fixer I buy is about 15 cents a liter, and it lasts me a printing session so its not exactly expensive.
Merkin
For the Weekend
Ouch, you can only get in the darkroom one day a week? That would drive me nuts (granted, i am currently in between darkrooms, which is driving me nuts, but regardless...)! If it is something you are passionate about, and you have spare time in the afternoons/evenings/weekends, go to the art department at UT or your local community college, introduce and ingratiate yourself with the photography faculty, and find out if there is any way you could go in and use the darkroom there. You would then be able to potentially pick the brains of the photo students there, and get more practice in. Alternately, depending on the school, some schools let photo students bring guests in to the darkroom with them. Find out the policies, find a photo student, and bribe them with beer money to take you with them in the evenings or weekends.
David Goldfarb
Well-known
Regarding not using a stop--some of us use an alkaline fixer like TF-4, so an acid stop would weaken the fix, rather than extending its life.
Regarding the original post, print your contact sheet at minimum time for maximum black in the film rebate at grade 2, and see where your highlights are. If they're flat, but you have good shadow detail, then your negs are underdeveloped, and you should increase your film development time in general. If you have poor shadow detail, then your negs are underexposed, and you should decrease your ISO setting on your camera or meter until you're getting good shadow detail, and then assess your highlights to determine film development time.
Most enlarging lenses are best 2-3 stops down from wide open, but APO lenses are usually optimized for one stop down from wide open.
Make sure you're developing the print to completion--usually a minimum of 90 sec., but with some developers it can be as long as 6 min. You should be getting solid blacks, and white borders should be perfectly clean. If the whites aren't clean, then reduce development time and increase exposure if needed.
Regarding the original post, print your contact sheet at minimum time for maximum black in the film rebate at grade 2, and see where your highlights are. If they're flat, but you have good shadow detail, then your negs are underdeveloped, and you should increase your film development time in general. If you have poor shadow detail, then your negs are underexposed, and you should decrease your ISO setting on your camera or meter until you're getting good shadow detail, and then assess your highlights to determine film development time.
Most enlarging lenses are best 2-3 stops down from wide open, but APO lenses are usually optimized for one stop down from wide open.
Make sure you're developing the print to completion--usually a minimum of 90 sec., but with some developers it can be as long as 6 min. You should be getting solid blacks, and white borders should be perfectly clean. If the whites aren't clean, then reduce development time and increase exposure if needed.
dfoo
Well-known
Yes, exactly. I use F4 for paper, which is along with being completely odorless is also alkaline.
Chris101
summicronia
I didn't see the answer Jeremy, to the question "are you making test strips?" This is an important step in getting a correct print, especially if you want to get it done all in one day, and don't have half a box of paper to waste.
To make and use test strips:
Good luck! When I am using a large piece of paper (read: expensive) I sometimes make half a dozen test strips, down to the nearest second, and often bracketing filters as well.
ps, no. 5 filter! Cool. 😉 If you use a #2, then you will have more latitude, both in the shadows and highlights.
To make and use test strips:
Take a piece of photo paper and cut it into strips 2-2 1/2 inches wide.
Get a piece of opaque cardboard.
Insert your contrast filter, focus your image, and get ready to expose. Instead of loading your paper into the easel, lay the test strip on it. If it curls, tape it down.
Place the piece of opaque cardboard over the test strip.
Set the enlarger timer to 10 seconds.
Move the cardboard so that a half inch or so of the strip is showing.
Expose that thin portion of the test strip for the 10 s.
Move the cardboard so that a half inch more of your test strip is showing. Note that both the previously exposed portion and the new part are now about to get (additional) exposure.
Expose the test strip for 10 sec more.
Repeat this until the entire test strip is exposed. Let's say the you exposed and moved five times. Now develop your test strip just as you would an entire print. (If you are having trouble getting blacks, try leaving the print in the developer longer.)
Now stop, fix and rinse your test strip. You can probably get by with only 2 minutes of fixing, cause I know you will be impatient to see the results.
DO NOT JUDGE YOUR TEST STRIP IN THE DARKROOM UNDER SAFELIGHTS.
Look at the test strip, one side will have a very light exposure (the image will be mostly white) and hopefully the other side will be too dark.
The light side part is 10 seconds of exposure, and the successively darker parts are 20, 30 40 and on the other edge, 50 seconds of exposure.
If the dark edge is NOT dark enough, make another test strip, but give the whole strip the 50 seconds (or however much time you ended with) first, then cover the strip with the cardboard and follow the procedure above. If the time gets to be a minute and a half or more, then open up the lens's aperture a stop or two.
If there is a portion of the test strip that looks like it has the correct exposure, then count by 10 seconds at a time, starting from the light end, to determine the correct time for the exposure.
If the correct exposure is between two portions, add five seconds to the shorter adjacent time, and make a print.
Get a piece of opaque cardboard.
Insert your contrast filter, focus your image, and get ready to expose. Instead of loading your paper into the easel, lay the test strip on it. If it curls, tape it down.
Place the piece of opaque cardboard over the test strip.
Set the enlarger timer to 10 seconds.
Move the cardboard so that a half inch or so of the strip is showing.
Expose that thin portion of the test strip for the 10 s.
Move the cardboard so that a half inch more of your test strip is showing. Note that both the previously exposed portion and the new part are now about to get (additional) exposure.
Expose the test strip for 10 sec more.
Repeat this until the entire test strip is exposed. Let's say the you exposed and moved five times. Now develop your test strip just as you would an entire print. (If you are having trouble getting blacks, try leaving the print in the developer longer.)
Now stop, fix and rinse your test strip. You can probably get by with only 2 minutes of fixing, cause I know you will be impatient to see the results.
DO NOT JUDGE YOUR TEST STRIP IN THE DARKROOM UNDER SAFELIGHTS.
Look at the test strip, one side will have a very light exposure (the image will be mostly white) and hopefully the other side will be too dark.
The light side part is 10 seconds of exposure, and the successively darker parts are 20, 30 40 and on the other edge, 50 seconds of exposure.
If the dark edge is NOT dark enough, make another test strip, but give the whole strip the 50 seconds (or however much time you ended with) first, then cover the strip with the cardboard and follow the procedure above. If the time gets to be a minute and a half or more, then open up the lens's aperture a stop or two.
If there is a portion of the test strip that looks like it has the correct exposure, then count by 10 seconds at a time, starting from the light end, to determine the correct time for the exposure.
If the correct exposure is between two portions, add five seconds to the shorter adjacent time, and make a print.
Good luck! When I am using a large piece of paper (read: expensive) I sometimes make half a dozen test strips, down to the nearest second, and often bracketing filters as well.
ps, no. 5 filter! Cool. 😉 If you use a #2, then you will have more latitude, both in the shadows and highlights.
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Merkin
For the Weekend
In regards to what Chris101 wrote, he is correct except that if your total time gets to one minute or more, open up. Reciprocity failure kicks in at one minute, and the relationship between the amount and time of light and the exposure on paper ceases to be linear.
ETA: also, I tend to do my initial test strip in five second increments instead of ten, but that is a matter of personal choice.
ETA: also, I tend to do my initial test strip in five second increments instead of ten, but that is a matter of personal choice.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
It's funny that you mention UT. I'm still pretty upset after finding out yesterday that I didn't get into UT. I'm going to have to transfer in now.
_goodtimez
Well-known
I Jeremy,
I would watch the fresheness and quality of the developper.
Good light to you
I would watch the fresheness and quality of the developper.
Good light to you
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