craygc
Well-known
Arjay
Time Traveller
How to get closer?
One way is to use stealth techniques by shooting from the hip. That takes a lot of preparation because you can't frame (practice your eye-to-hand coordination), and you have to use zone focusing (which is tricky up close). It helps if you have an extra-silent camera like a Hexar AF and use fast film.
If you're not working stealthily, then you need to be aware of peoples' comfort zone. The radius of this zone depends on the culture you're living in. In Germany (where I live), this might be distances smaller than 7ft (2m), in southern European countries (and in some parts of Asia), this distance might be a lot smaller.
The comfort zone is important - it's the distance threshold that makes people apprehensive, and if you invade this zone, you'd better find a way to put your subject at ease. Be friendly, be respectful, be charming, if you can. Your success may vary, and might depend on your capability to break the ice with people, but it always is great practice, often an adventure, and sometimes very amusing.
When I look at the street pictures I shot in direct communication with my subjects, I almost always can tell whether I had a good day or not: On good days, I can strike up pleasant conversations, detracting people from the fact that they might be featured in a picture and get very natural shots. On bad days, I find it difficult to get anything else than stiff, posed pictures ...
One way is to use stealth techniques by shooting from the hip. That takes a lot of preparation because you can't frame (practice your eye-to-hand coordination), and you have to use zone focusing (which is tricky up close). It helps if you have an extra-silent camera like a Hexar AF and use fast film.
If you're not working stealthily, then you need to be aware of peoples' comfort zone. The radius of this zone depends on the culture you're living in. In Germany (where I live), this might be distances smaller than 7ft (2m), in southern European countries (and in some parts of Asia), this distance might be a lot smaller.
The comfort zone is important - it's the distance threshold that makes people apprehensive, and if you invade this zone, you'd better find a way to put your subject at ease. Be friendly, be respectful, be charming, if you can. Your success may vary, and might depend on your capability to break the ice with people, but it always is great practice, often an adventure, and sometimes very amusing.
When I look at the street pictures I shot in direct communication with my subjects, I almost always can tell whether I had a good day or not: On good days, I can strike up pleasant conversations, detracting people from the fact that they might be featured in a picture and get very natural shots. On bad days, I find it difficult to get anything else than stiff, posed pictures ...
Explaining is good, having a small book with some of your street shots to show as examples can make life a lot easier.
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xxloverxx
Shoot.
does that have something to do with your forum name here (and the name of this thread)?
Unfortunately not
Gareth67
Member
I've just come back from Istanbul, where I did a course on street photography. It's not as counterintuitive as it might sound - it was actually an excellent course.
Some of the things that came out of the course for me were these. They reflect the style of the teacher - which is not my natural style - but I have to confess that they were very effective when I threw myself into it.
• Using a wide angle lens – 28mm or 35mm. Put simply, you pack more in and develop my complex compositions. (Traditionally I've preferred a 90mm, BTW)
• Focus precisely, rather than zone focussing (although it was often helpful to start by estimating focus when approaching a subject). Using hyperfocal distances is simply not very accurate - it's only focus within a fairly loose tolerance.
• Make a contract with yourself to take the photograph – and not chicken out. Overcome your timidity. It will only become harder if you don't. Of course, you should try to be unobtrusive. However, at some stage, you will generally be noticed and the subject will react to the camera (the 'deer in headlights' or posing). At this stage, you shouldn't look guilty or scuttle off – you need to establish your legitimacy and ideally some relationship with the subject - ideally while you continued shooting, perhaps with some light banter. Of course, if someone seriously objects or gets annoyed, you should move on and not take it personally.
• Establishing a relationship with the subject once you are noticed is very important. A smile is a good start. Many people will have some opening line (often the same as the last person!) People often said to me - 'that will be 20 lire, he's famous'! I'd generally respond, while still shooting, 'No - but I'll make him famous!' (Strangely when I got back to Australia, people used the same lines - not sure what that means). When things were a little hairier, I'd often work my way up to the photo. So, at one Istanbul coffee house, I started outside the coffee house (with the owner eyeballing me), photographing the street cat outside and showing the owner. At some stage, I indicated then photographed the owner. Then, after a while, I went into the cafe and started working on the subjects I was really interested in - the card players inside.
• Other techniques would come into play - chatting, showing the subject (or their friends) the photo's, promising to email or bring prints, always saying thank you before you moved on.
• But the most important thing was to keep working it. At some stage, people get over the 'deer in the headlights' moment and something else comes through - maybe they turn and smile, maybe they get used to and keep doing what they were doing leaving you free to photograph, maybe something else happens. And, in the meantime, you're refining your ideas and your composition. Digital is a big advantage here, of course - it doesn't matter how much you shoot.
• Our teacher also drew an analogy with sport. It's important to practice (like a tennis player hitting the ball against a wall, getting it right) and court sense (knowing where to be, so you can capture the right shot) and athleticism (getting into the right position to take a shot).
• Finally, you do need to find some emotion in your work - to empathise with your subject.
Istanbul turned out to be an excellent place to try this out - everybody is extraordinarily friendly and few people object to you taking their photograph (in fact, the problem lies more in everyone posing once they notice you...)
Here are some examples. The card player shot was at the second cafe I tried the 'photograph the owner' trick. In two of the examples, the subjects were well and truly used to me (I was probably on about my 20 or 30th shot - maybe more). In the other, it was my first shot - the subject then noticed me and smiled. All are with a 28mm lens (and M9).
Of course, Sydney is a bit of a tougher environment - but I think the same basic principles hold.
Cheers
Gareth
Some of the things that came out of the course for me were these. They reflect the style of the teacher - which is not my natural style - but I have to confess that they were very effective when I threw myself into it.
• Using a wide angle lens – 28mm or 35mm. Put simply, you pack more in and develop my complex compositions. (Traditionally I've preferred a 90mm, BTW)
• Focus precisely, rather than zone focussing (although it was often helpful to start by estimating focus when approaching a subject). Using hyperfocal distances is simply not very accurate - it's only focus within a fairly loose tolerance.
• Make a contract with yourself to take the photograph – and not chicken out. Overcome your timidity. It will only become harder if you don't. Of course, you should try to be unobtrusive. However, at some stage, you will generally be noticed and the subject will react to the camera (the 'deer in headlights' or posing). At this stage, you shouldn't look guilty or scuttle off – you need to establish your legitimacy and ideally some relationship with the subject - ideally while you continued shooting, perhaps with some light banter. Of course, if someone seriously objects or gets annoyed, you should move on and not take it personally.
• Establishing a relationship with the subject once you are noticed is very important. A smile is a good start. Many people will have some opening line (often the same as the last person!) People often said to me - 'that will be 20 lire, he's famous'! I'd generally respond, while still shooting, 'No - but I'll make him famous!' (Strangely when I got back to Australia, people used the same lines - not sure what that means). When things were a little hairier, I'd often work my way up to the photo. So, at one Istanbul coffee house, I started outside the coffee house (with the owner eyeballing me), photographing the street cat outside and showing the owner. At some stage, I indicated then photographed the owner. Then, after a while, I went into the cafe and started working on the subjects I was really interested in - the card players inside.
• Other techniques would come into play - chatting, showing the subject (or their friends) the photo's, promising to email or bring prints, always saying thank you before you moved on.
• But the most important thing was to keep working it. At some stage, people get over the 'deer in the headlights' moment and something else comes through - maybe they turn and smile, maybe they get used to and keep doing what they were doing leaving you free to photograph, maybe something else happens. And, in the meantime, you're refining your ideas and your composition. Digital is a big advantage here, of course - it doesn't matter how much you shoot.
• Our teacher also drew an analogy with sport. It's important to practice (like a tennis player hitting the ball against a wall, getting it right) and court sense (knowing where to be, so you can capture the right shot) and athleticism (getting into the right position to take a shot).
• Finally, you do need to find some emotion in your work - to empathise with your subject.
Istanbul turned out to be an excellent place to try this out - everybody is extraordinarily friendly and few people object to you taking their photograph (in fact, the problem lies more in everyone posing once they notice you...)
Here are some examples. The card player shot was at the second cafe I tried the 'photograph the owner' trick. In two of the examples, the subjects were well and truly used to me (I was probably on about my 20 or 30th shot - maybe more). In the other, it was my first shot - the subject then noticed me and smiled. All are with a 28mm lens (and M9).
Of course, Sydney is a bit of a tougher environment - but I think the same basic principles hold.
Cheers
Gareth
anthony_semone
Established
outstanding work
outstanding work
Peter M,
"If people are really engaged they seldom take much notice anyway."
Truly for me a very, very helpful post. In the extremely limited experience I've had attempting to take pictures in public places, I've found myself drawn to those persons who are, or appear to be, drawn into their own self-reflection, and, hence, oblivious to my presence. In fairness, while the following pictures were taken w/ my D700 and 105VR, each was in fairly close physical proximity. I've now gotten an RF camera and several wide-angle primes and look forward with these lenses to improve in this genre of photography.
The first picture you posted is remarkable! One can only speculate what she is reflecting on. You've made an exceptional capture, IMHO.
tony
outstanding work
Peter M,
"If people are really engaged they seldom take much notice anyway."
Truly for me a very, very helpful post. In the extremely limited experience I've had attempting to take pictures in public places, I've found myself drawn to those persons who are, or appear to be, drawn into their own self-reflection, and, hence, oblivious to my presence. In fairness, while the following pictures were taken w/ my D700 and 105VR, each was in fairly close physical proximity. I've now gotten an RF camera and several wide-angle primes and look forward with these lenses to improve in this genre of photography.
The first picture you posted is remarkable! One can only speculate what she is reflecting on. You've made an exceptional capture, IMHO.
tony
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reiki_
Well-known
This is a hot topic for me , cause I really don't know where I stand ; at the same time I'm really shy and feel bad for invading , and the next second I kinda really really enjoy a rush of adrenaline from an 'in your face picture' of a really good looking female. Having trouble staying introvert I guess .
As for the approach , dunno , whatever works , I feel more comfortable working with another photographer and listening to those Winogrand how he takes the picture and then handles the subject after. If a girl complains , you can always offer to buy her coffe , sometimes it works .
.As for the approach , dunno , whatever works , I feel more comfortable working with another photographer and listening to those Winogrand how he takes the picture and then handles the subject after. If a girl complains , you can always offer to buy her coffe , sometimes it works .
NathanJD
Well-known
Great post and interesting stuff! i think someone's chosen style of attack dictates what kind of photos they end up with - announcing your intention in a situation will gain one kind of photo when catching a spontaneous moment in time is another. the method you describe will give you pictures that are effected by your presence while PeterM1's method is a way of catching people at their most natural.
It's a difference between making a study and catching spontaneity - if you can make someone comfortable with your camera great, that's generally my style, but if you are able to catch things when they happen without being noticed then that's something entirely different - that's street photography.
it's really all about front.
Gareth67
Member
It's a little bit of both actually - you are trying to start unobtrusively (which can involve a variety of techniques), but you are also accepting that you will be noticed and that the photography doesn't stop there. People do have a pretty good sense of when they're being photographed - even when you're trying to be unobtrusive.
I also agree that there is a very big difference between asking someone to take their photo and obtaining their tacit consent (or maybe unwilling consent!) by simply continuing once they've noticed.
Techniques for being unobtrusive are well traversed. For me they include:
- keeping the camera in hand by my side, with the strap around my wrist;
- using cover (e.g other people)
- pre-focussing (or focussing on something else)
- taking advantage of distraction
- (sometimes) moving slowly
- practising so you're fast at focussing etc (!)
- ensuring I change ISO and aperture when I change light conditions - so I'm always ready to shoot
I'm a bit equivocal on hip shots for a few reasons. First, the focussing tends to be loose - even stopped down and with a small aperture. Second, they're hit and miss - and it maybe you're missing the shot of a lifetime for the sake of shooting from the hip. Third, sometimes the real reason you're hip shooting is because you're chickening out - this is where the contract with yourself comes in. Fourth, you're not actually composing the shot except in the loosest sense. I always feel a little guilty taking credit for a hip shot.
On the plus side, though, sometimes seeing the results of a hip shot can give you some ideas and really free up your composition.
A couple of interesting examples of this type of work (although strictly shot from the hip) are
- Walker Evans subway series (shot with a concealed camera on NY subways in the 1940s). Not well known, but a superb series. See http://www.masters-of-photography.com/E/evans/evans_subway_portrait_full.html
- Michael Von Graffenreid. He uses panorama camera's - Widelux and Xpans. Some of his widelux shots from Algeria are shot with camera simply hanging at his chest. See http://www.reportage.org/PrintEdition2/Algeria/PagesAlgeria/2interview.html
Cheers
Gareth
I also agree that there is a very big difference between asking someone to take their photo and obtaining their tacit consent (or maybe unwilling consent!) by simply continuing once they've noticed.
Techniques for being unobtrusive are well traversed. For me they include:
- keeping the camera in hand by my side, with the strap around my wrist;
- using cover (e.g other people)
- pre-focussing (or focussing on something else)
- taking advantage of distraction
- (sometimes) moving slowly
- practising so you're fast at focussing etc (!)
- ensuring I change ISO and aperture when I change light conditions - so I'm always ready to shoot
I'm a bit equivocal on hip shots for a few reasons. First, the focussing tends to be loose - even stopped down and with a small aperture. Second, they're hit and miss - and it maybe you're missing the shot of a lifetime for the sake of shooting from the hip. Third, sometimes the real reason you're hip shooting is because you're chickening out - this is where the contract with yourself comes in. Fourth, you're not actually composing the shot except in the loosest sense. I always feel a little guilty taking credit for a hip shot.
On the plus side, though, sometimes seeing the results of a hip shot can give you some ideas and really free up your composition.
A couple of interesting examples of this type of work (although strictly shot from the hip) are
- Walker Evans subway series (shot with a concealed camera on NY subways in the 1940s). Not well known, but a superb series. See http://www.masters-of-photography.com/E/evans/evans_subway_portrait_full.html
- Michael Von Graffenreid. He uses panorama camera's - Widelux and Xpans. Some of his widelux shots from Algeria are shot with camera simply hanging at his chest. See http://www.reportage.org/PrintEdition2/Algeria/PagesAlgeria/2interview.html
Cheers
Gareth
Gareth67
Member
PS I'm also shy - but the more you do it, the less shy you become. You'll probably never be more shy than when you're first trying to do it, but that falls away.
As part of learning the ropes, it can be interesting going out shooting with someone who's good at striking an instant rapport with people.
As part of learning the ropes, it can be interesting going out shooting with someone who's good at striking an instant rapport with people.
Steve M.
Veteran
A 90 lens is your best friend for what you want. Are you shooting a Leica or Leica mount camera? The 90 f4 Elmar C is a tiny little thing, and delivers great images. Cheap too.
bigeye
Well-known
Just an observation - I'm certainly no expert, but when using an old camera people fall into curiosity when they notice you; rather than close down, more often they open up. They seem to want to participate with your antique hobby rather than shut down someone 'stealing' an image - there's a different 'vibe'. But, there are technical constraints...