Nick De Marco
Well-known
I have Mac - snow leopard - and epson r2400
You may have heard there are various problems with the software here
Despite trying everything - including getting expert epson advice and recalibrating for the nth time I cannot get black and white prints I really like anymore
I've gone back to the darkroom and got prints which jump out of the paper, and I am sure for less money (comparing price of chemical and good paper with digital paper and inks). I also find the process of black and white printing in the darkroom far more creative and fun.
But I don't just shoot film so I am left unhappy with black and white digital printing. I've tried a couple of commercial services, the colour prints are fine but the black and white lack punch. Plus you lose control, unless you pay lots.
Before I completely give up the idea of printing clack and white at home, can anyone who gets fantastic results which equal a wet darkroom offer any advice. Should I dump the r2400 and get something else?
Really appreciate some feedback
Nick
You may have heard there are various problems with the software here
Despite trying everything - including getting expert epson advice and recalibrating for the nth time I cannot get black and white prints I really like anymore
I've gone back to the darkroom and got prints which jump out of the paper, and I am sure for less money (comparing price of chemical and good paper with digital paper and inks). I also find the process of black and white printing in the darkroom far more creative and fun.
But I don't just shoot film so I am left unhappy with black and white digital printing. I've tried a couple of commercial services, the colour prints are fine but the black and white lack punch. Plus you lose control, unless you pay lots.
Before I completely give up the idea of printing clack and white at home, can anyone who gets fantastic results which equal a wet darkroom offer any advice. Should I dump the r2400 and get something else?
Really appreciate some feedback
Nick
filmfan
Well-known
Are you saying "digital prints" meaning from a digital camera, or meaning from a scanned negative (or either/both)?
If you mean digital camera, then it's just as much to do with the digital censor as the printer. I would say dump the digital camera and stick to film if you want really nice BW prints consistently--- however, I may be risking stating the obvious...
My prints in a traditional darkroom are better than my prints from a digital printer based from a scanned negative, and even worse are the DSLR digital prints. I think a lot of it is how you process your digital file, for I have seen great BW prints from DSLRs and also bad traditional darkroom prints. All about processing... unfortunately, I cannot help you in this department.
If you mean digital camera, then it's just as much to do with the digital censor as the printer. I would say dump the digital camera and stick to film if you want really nice BW prints consistently--- however, I may be risking stating the obvious...
My prints in a traditional darkroom are better than my prints from a digital printer based from a scanned negative, and even worse are the DSLR digital prints. I think a lot of it is how you process your digital file, for I have seen great BW prints from DSLRs and also bad traditional darkroom prints. All about processing... unfortunately, I cannot help you in this department.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
I get beautiful prints. The problems most people have are several:
Poor screen. 99% of LCDs out there are incapable of showing accurate greyscale reproduction through the whole tonal range. It sucks because in the old days of CRT screens, midpriced screens like the Mitsubishi Diamondtron gave magnificent quality. I had one that I paid $400 for 9 years ago and It was perfect, till it died while I was in New Mexico 4 yrs ago. I wanted another; no one makes them! Had to buy an LCD and to get quality that came close (but still wan't QUITE as good) I had to spend $1800 for an NEC 2190uxi, which was one of the best of the time. I still have it and am thankful I needed it when I lived in NM and was earning decent money. I could not afford it today.
Calibration: Self-calibrating screens like my NEC are the best. I have never seen an LCD that works well calbrated with third party devices.
Printer: you have a good one, same one I use. I use the black and white advanced mode, but I have to set it to LIGHTEN or they come out too dark. When I used my Epson 2200 with Imageprint, they came out perfect. I can't afford Imageprint for the newer printer though. They've raised the price quite a bit and even the old price is a lot for me now.
Good Scans: I use a Nikon LS-8000. With glass carrier, for EVERY scan.
Photoshop: The skills needed to edit a BW image in photoshop take a while to learn, it is just like learning the darkroom, takes a LOT of practice. Most people online don't have the skills. I'm not judging your skills though, I've not seen your work. I am assuming you are getting the photos looking good on screen but they look bad in print, right? So you probably have more of a screen and calibration issue.
I use Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, which is a BEAUTIFUL paper for BW prints on the epson 2400. I use the settings for Epson Premium Semi-Gloss. That may be why my prints need the LIGHTEN setting. Imageprint had profiles for the ilford paper when I used it with my now-dead 2200.
Poor screen. 99% of LCDs out there are incapable of showing accurate greyscale reproduction through the whole tonal range. It sucks because in the old days of CRT screens, midpriced screens like the Mitsubishi Diamondtron gave magnificent quality. I had one that I paid $400 for 9 years ago and It was perfect, till it died while I was in New Mexico 4 yrs ago. I wanted another; no one makes them! Had to buy an LCD and to get quality that came close (but still wan't QUITE as good) I had to spend $1800 for an NEC 2190uxi, which was one of the best of the time. I still have it and am thankful I needed it when I lived in NM and was earning decent money. I could not afford it today.
Calibration: Self-calibrating screens like my NEC are the best. I have never seen an LCD that works well calbrated with third party devices.
Printer: you have a good one, same one I use. I use the black and white advanced mode, but I have to set it to LIGHTEN or they come out too dark. When I used my Epson 2200 with Imageprint, they came out perfect. I can't afford Imageprint for the newer printer though. They've raised the price quite a bit and even the old price is a lot for me now.
Good Scans: I use a Nikon LS-8000. With glass carrier, for EVERY scan.
Photoshop: The skills needed to edit a BW image in photoshop take a while to learn, it is just like learning the darkroom, takes a LOT of practice. Most people online don't have the skills. I'm not judging your skills though, I've not seen your work. I am assuming you are getting the photos looking good on screen but they look bad in print, right? So you probably have more of a screen and calibration issue.
I use Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, which is a BEAUTIFUL paper for BW prints on the epson 2400. I use the settings for Epson Premium Semi-Gloss. That may be why my prints need the LIGHTEN setting. Imageprint had profiles for the ilford paper when I used it with my now-dead 2200.
hlockwood
Well-known
Ditto on what Christopher says.
I have the 2400, Snow Leopard and Nikon 4000ED. I get beautiful full tone prints using Cone's K7 inks and QTR. But this is matte paper only. Cone (InkjetMall.com) has other options as well. But if you love the smell of the darkroom, well, there's your answer.
Harry
ampguy
Veteran
I get awesome prints from both my Epson R380, and from Costco.
Chris101
summicronia
I've used an R2400, and it is a very nice printer to use. Like Chris Crawford, I use the Ilford GFS paper (with the pigment based K7 inks. Or, with dye inks, I use Galerie Smooth Pearl for a similar surface.) Be sure to get the profile from Ilford's website for the paper you use, as it is essential that you have a consistent profiling throughout your workflow. The print settings are less than straightforward, and will take some experimentation until you get it right. Basically I set "let the printer determine colors", and it is easier than adjusting in Photoshop. I also use an Epson 7800, and I find the 2400 is a bit easier to get a clean neutral grayscale out of, although both printers do well once adjusted properly.
An important factor of digital output is that it is qualitatively different from darkroom printing. As long as you work within the inherent limits of the medium (any medium) you will eventually get it to a point that it does what you want.
An important factor of digital output is that it is qualitatively different from darkroom printing. As long as you work within the inherent limits of the medium (any medium) you will eventually get it to a point that it does what you want.
TareqPhoto
The Survivor
Go with Epson 3800 [now 3880], i swear by this printer, my B&W shots are breathtaking and outstanding, i didn't print wet prints yet to compare, but so far the results are amazing mostly from my H3DII-39
mfogiel
Veteran
I print on Epson R 2400 and use a Mac as well. The 3 steps to remember, as said above, are:
- calibrate your screen
- set he printer to advanced B&W mode, and make a print on your favourite paper of a good tonally, typical photo of yours (judge the brigtness on computer screen)
- let the photo dry for a day, and compare it in good lighting to what you see on screen. If it is too bright or dark, adjust the brightness in the advanced B&W printing module, till you get to the stage of WYSIWYG
I recommend Ilford Galerie Gold Fiber Silk, especially nice with the warm or sepia setting. The matte' papers are nice for portraits and the like, but exhibit lower Dmax, and lose easily shadow details, a thing to remember if you do landscapes.
- calibrate your screen
- set he printer to advanced B&W mode, and make a print on your favourite paper of a good tonally, typical photo of yours (judge the brigtness on computer screen)
- let the photo dry for a day, and compare it in good lighting to what you see on screen. If it is too bright or dark, adjust the brightness in the advanced B&W printing module, till you get to the stage of WYSIWYG
I recommend Ilford Galerie Gold Fiber Silk, especially nice with the warm or sepia setting. The matte' papers are nice for portraits and the like, but exhibit lower Dmax, and lose easily shadow details, a thing to remember if you do landscapes.