Getting it right with PhotoFlo

bkrystad

bkrystad

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After getting fed up with water spots, I gave PhotoFlo a try for the first time today. I put the correct proportion of PhotoFlo 200 (2.5ml PhotoFlo to 500ml water) in my final 3-minute rinse in a stainless steel tank with Seattle tap water, and got suds, suds, suds! The foam stayed put in the sprocket holes as I took the film off the Hewes reel. I didn't touch the film, I'm just taking my chances and letting it dry as is.

Should I expect this foaming? Ignore it? Or change something? Is the tap water not good enough, and I should use distilled? Does duration of agitation matter? Did I misunderstand the ratio of 1/200?
 
Do NOT agitate.

I use 2.5ml of PhotoFlo and 30ml of isopropyl alcohol in 1 liter of tap water. I just pour it in the tank and let it sit for about 1 minute.
 
I use 2mL of Photoflo with 400mL of tap water and let it sit in the tank for 30 secs. I first measure my water then add the Photoflo and stir gently--other way around and it was sudsy. My negs are always clear of spots, but occasional dust before scanning.
 
The dilution is not critical. A drop or two in half a liter or a full liter (16 oz. or 30 oz. SS tank) works fine. You can run several, probably 20 or thirty, reels through it if you do it the same day. Photo-flo has some kind of nutrient in it and crud starts growing in it. You want to discard it before that happens. Some people use a drop or two of dishwashing detergent, such a Dawn. It's cheaper.
 
Don't worry about the foaming, it's normal. But use distilled water (a gallon of the stuff is a little over a buck at Bartell Drugs). With Seattle tap water, I tend to get water spots even with PhotoFlo. With distilled water, no problems. Don't wipe or squeegee the film, just let it hang until dry.
 
Seattle water works fine for my 5 min rinse then 1 min soak in PhotoFlo (no agitation), squeegee then hang. Bubbles are expected sometimes more/sometimes less but foaming action isn't normal. May not be a problem though as PF's purpose is to draw bubbles off the film...
 
I just put a dollop out of the bottle and then pull the film reel up and down per the directions. I use filtered water, hang it vertical and squeegee off the excess between two fingers (lightly). Then I hang the film horizontally. Usually all the water spots now end up between the film sprockets.
 
Haven’t changed my routine but I’m now getting water marks consistently. Previously I’ve used a couple of drops of wetting agent and then run my fingers down the film before hanging. The only solution I’ve had some success with, is using a sponge to gently wipe instead of my fingers and so reduce the amount of residual water on the film. I’ve invested in some lint free wipes which a wait testing. It’ll be distilled water next but that seems such a pain.

I have know idea why the change maybe I’ve raised my standards. Its very depressing as it’s always on the frame you want to print.🙁
 
The best way to get spotless negatives is on the reels in something like the Senrac film dryer, but those cost a small fortune. They do have the advantage of a built in heater and timer. If you Google Senrac Film Dryer you'll also find directions for making your own, like I did over thirty years ago.

The advantage is that it's a lot easier to blow water across the 35mm width of the film than down the 5.5 foot length. You'll need a piece of PVC pipe, a blower of some kind, and a few other things. I just plug it into my Gralab timer so it'll turn off after 30 minutes or so. Several layers of air conditioner filter material gives you clean air. My darkroom is air coditioned so the air is dry. I can get one roll dry in a half hour or less. If I have a lot of film or I'm in a rush I aim a hair dryer at the air intake. Ten minutes for a bone dry roll!

The film will be curly. You can hang it overnight with a weighted film clip or take it off the reel before it's 100% dry and wind it emulsion side out on the reel for the last couple of minutes.

Make sure to give the reels a thorough wash when you're through to get all the dry Photoflo off of them before you use them again.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com
 
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there's always some suds/foaming, they just run to the floor.

however, i always use distilled water. not sure if it matters but i always have distilled water on hand to mix my chemicals with so i use it with photo-flo as well.

i use tap water for washing though.
 
Sage advice, all around. Here's what I'll try on the next roll:

1. Swirl the mixture, don't agitate it (aka "read the directions").
2. Use distilled water.
3. Just let it stand 30 to 60 seconds.

Dedicated film dryer on the "someday" list.

Many thanks to all who replied!
 
As I mentioned in another thread, I use Brita filtered water with Photoflo. I've had no problems with watermarks since I've been using the Brita. One member mentioned the possibility of residual charcoal in Brita filtered water, but I haven't seen a problem there.

Otherwise I just take a drop or two of Photoflo, fill up the tank with water and let it sit for a bit.
 
Al Kaplan said:
... You'll need a piece of PVC pipe, a blower of some kind, and a few other things. ...
Click to expand...
You've mentioned that device a couple times before Al, and I actually made one. It functions beautifully - as efficient as the drying cabinet at school, if a bit louder. I find that in AZ, about 10 min is all that is needed. The curl is not too much, about the same as if I give the hung film strips an hour of still air drying.

Thanks so much for pushing this device, it rocks!
 
I don't know about PhotoFlo because I use some wetting agent made by Fuji but the instructions on the bottle read: Max 30sec. and no agitation. If there are bubbles on the emulsion surface they can prevent the wetting solution from getting in contact with the emulsion and the results can be drying spots.

A second problem are plastic reels. The wetting emulsion builds up a film on plastic surfaces with time (repeated using), which is difficult to remove and can cause problems:

(From the JOBO instructions)

Stabilizer (or Kodak final rinse, or any Photo-Flo type surfactant) should always be used in the following way: Use a dedicated container for the solution. This solution should be stored and used off the processor (at room temperature). Remove the film from the reels before immersing the film in the solution. If reels or tanks are immersed in these solutions, they will eventually cause processing contamination effects. The reels will become difficult to load. Rinsing or cleaning the reels or tanks after processing will not eliminate this problem.
 
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