Give up Tri X and go for HP5+? Pyro Developers?

Bruno Gracia

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I'm thinking in swtich the Tri X for HP5+ in 35mm and 120, because is too curly and annoying to scan, where the Ilford is flat. What's the main differences between this two? I can see more grain and greys in the Ilford one than Kodak's. I really like a lot of greys, portrait and people mainly.

I also read about use Pyro developers for greater shadow details and "3D" look.

Could You help me choosing please?
 
I've made the switch about a year ago precisely for the same reason. I'm not familiar with Pyro developers, I use Xtol or Rodinal. HP5 has a different look, I find the midtone greys are richer and the grain just a little more pronounced, but in a nice way that gives it character.
There are probably more useful technical difference that I don't know
 
thank guys, and Chris, I'm freaking out with your post!!

The point is, for me is easier to handle the Ilford film I think, with Tri X, sometimes too contrasty, sometimes difficult to get shadow details, etc. Always in D76.

Then , the Pyro developers are difficult and danger in use? What's the recomended dilution or which one will give me great tonality, sharpness and details?

Wow.. I'm really impressed.. I think I will make the change, definetely.
 
I can't say I've found HP5 to be grainier than Tri X but it is lower contrast. If you decide not to go down the pyro route (can't comment on that as I've never used it) then the best results I've had from the Ilford film is rating it at 250 ISO and developing it in Perceptol 1+3. Grain is fine and smooth and the highlights are gorgeous.

We're all mad trying this developer and that film but if I was forced to choose just one of each then I'd pick HP5 and Perceptol. Here's a pic from that combination:
 

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HP5 in PMK Pyro is gorgeous, and finer grained than Tri-X. I've been using it extensively for the last several months.

Look at my HP5 in PMK thread here at RFF for examples.

Chris,

The tonality in Grandmas Garage is just beautiful. I've read a lot about pyro and the claims proponents make for it but that's probably the best example I've seen of the "silveriness".
 
HP5 is a great film; I love it in Rodinal (400), Perceptol (200) and Microphen (640). Never used Pyro but from Chris' shots I can see it looks great.

114791585.jpg
 
My experience is that they are very close in grain, tonality, and sharpness at box speed and lower (e.g. for high contrast scenes at EI 250 or 320 and reduced dev time) in XTOL, ID-11 and LC-29. For this purpose I prefer HP5+ due to less curl, therefore easier scanning.

The difference to me, is if you plan to push your film. At higher EI my experience with XTOL is that I prefer Tri-X, whereas with LC-29 and Microphen I would go for HP5+. While I have not tried pushing them in ID-11, the brand affiliation is obvious here. I don't have a lot of time for testing, so I can't say whether this is due to actual film/developer properties or simply better spec sheets from the manufacturers for their own films. I mix XTOL in quantities of 5L at a time, and as a result prefer Tri-X if I do, or might, push my film.

I can't speak to Pyro developers, but I have see the thread Chris mentions, and must say I am impressed with his results. I suggest you take a look there.

Finally, unlike discount options you risk nothing in terms of quality or flexibility, so why not just buy a brick and decide for yourself? 😉

Cheers,
Rob
 
There are several Pyro developers out there. PMK is the only one I have used, so what I'm going to tell you applies only to it.

PMK is diluted 1+2+100. It has two separate stock solutions. You use one part Solution A, two parts solution B, and 100 parts water. I add 10ml of A and 20ml of B to 1000ml of water.

I've found that HP5 gives the best shadow detail exposed at EI-250. I'm scanning my film, and have never tried printing film developed in PMK in the darkroom. The yellowish stain affects silver-based paper differently than a scanner, and that is especially true if you print on VC papers. My developing times may need changed if you print in the darkroom.

I develop HP5 for 9 minutes at 75 degrees (24C).

Pyro developers are a lot more toxic than normal developers. Wear Nitrile gloves, not latex (some chemicals can pass through latex). Buy the Liquid PMK kit, not the powder. Mixing powders always gets some into the air, and if you breathe it, it gets into your bloodstream much faster than it would through skin absorbtion.

Use distilled water to make your working strength developer. Water quality can affect how PMK works.

Having said all that, there are really only two things about PMK that have to be done much differently than other developers (you should wear gloves with ANY chemicals!). One is that it requires more agitation than most developers. PMK is prone to uneven developing, streaking, spots, etc. You have to agitate for the first minute, then every 15 seconds. My agitation procedure is to turn the tank upside-down quickly, then back to upright, then hit the bottom of the tank on the palm of my hand a couple of times to dislodge air bubbles. I do this constantly the first minute, then two times every 15 seconds. Agitate vigorously, not gently.

The other thing is that acids reduce the stain you want from Pyro developers. Do not use stop bath; instead fill and dump the tank with water two times between the developer and the fixer. Most fixers are also acidic. Get an alkaline fixer. I use Photographers Formulary TF-4. Its a great fixer for any film, developed in any developer. Freestyle and B&H both sell the TF-4 fix and they both sell Photographers Formulary's liquid PMK kits.

Wash the film in running water for 20 minutes. The stain intensifies somewhat during the long wash.

thank guys, and Chris, I'm freaking out with your post!!

The point is, for me is easier to handle the Ilford film I think, with Tri X, sometimes too contrasty, sometimes difficult to get shadow details, etc. Always in D76.

Then , the Pyro developers are difficult and danger in use? What's the recomended dilution or which one will give me great tonality, sharpness and details?

Wow.. I'm really impressed.. I think I will make the change, definetely.
 
Ilford HP5 develops very nicely in Ilfosol 3. It pushes really well to 1600 (I've not tried it at 3200). As much as I love Tri-x, in 35mm it arcs terribly and never really goes flat, making scanning a difficulty. Never had that issue with HP5. It's one of my favorite films.

A few samples for you:

The first two were at 400 with a Nikon F100 and 50mm afd. The third was at 800 with a Nikon FE and 50mm 1.8 series e lens, shot indoors. All developed in Ilfosol 3 according to Ilford's developing guidelines.
 

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Hi Bruno,
As you are in the UK, I can thoroughly recommend HP5+ in Peter Hogan's Prescysol Ef which is a staining developer.
No connection, just a happy user!
Jonathan
 
Just leave the Tri-x to dry properly and then store in neg sleeves for a few days under light weight and it soon flattens out. Very easy to scan then.

HP5+ is very nice also. I use both in D76. Have been through all the different film developer concentrations over the years (Perceptol 1+3 and 510 Pyro were my faves) and decided that for me D76 1+1 was more than good enough, and have more or less standardised on that ever since.
 
thank You all, I really appreciate your answers and comments.

So, for now, seems to be perceptol (is the same as ilfosol?) 1+3 and Pyrocat "handle with care" are winning. My most use format is 35mm for now, have got great lenses, 28 cron, 35 lux asph. 50 lux asph. and 90 APO, of course quality of MF is just impossible to reach with the Leica system, but for the money, I want to take out the great tonality and sharpness, at least with portraiture work.

I'm looking for a good Rolleiflex too.

Never do a wet print, but this year I will, and will be nice bring with me a good negative.

So... perceptol or ilfosol and Pyro? or this combination is redundant?
 
Perceptol and Ilfosol are very different. Perceptol is a Metol (Methyl p-aminophenol) based developer that is low activity and is very fine grain, rumoured to be similar to Kodak Microdol-x .
Ilfosol is by accounts a PQ type developer, a good all rounder good speed with moderate grain.
 
Just leave the Tri-x to dry properly and then store in neg sleeves for a few days under light weight and it soon flattens out. Very easy to scan then.


I've not found that to be true in my case, and have some HP5+ and Delta 100 I'm shooting now to replace it. This last roll I have of Tri-X I rolled backwards onto the cassette spool and left it like that for over two weeks. Took it off, cut the strips, and slid them into negative sleeves. That was in the morning. By mid-afternoon they had curled up too much to flatten and get a good scan. I've tried 50+ lbs of books for weeks, etc.. I would need a 1/4" thick piece of glass and clamps to flatten what I have used. Love the contrast, but the most aggravating stuff ever for scanning in my experience (which is limited). I'm glad I didn't buy more than a brick of it.
 
The other thing with Perceptol at 1+3 is that you are diluting the cutting action of the silver solvent slightly. Grain isn't reduced as much but sharpness gets a wee boost. It's the best compromise in my opinion. 1+3 also has a compensating effect which helps to stop highlights becoming too dense. Pyro may well be better but I don't think you'd be disappointed with Perceptol. Good choice either way!


~
 
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