Good problem/mystery to have?!

I believe the Fl number refers to a contract number. The Sn puts it '39-'40 so very likely genuine.
Another question is does it have the letter "K" stamped on one fo the shutter curtains? That would be a kugelager(sp?) ball bearing, designed for cold temperatures(high altitude).
Condition is everything. A mint camera might bring $5k but one in the condition you have probably $400-$1000? on a good day.

The stereo cameras most likely are totally unrelated to the Leica.
If they're bakelite or plastic are post war 1954-forward.
 
Leica IIIc body 385756, Shipment #13082, delivered 11/8/44.

In its present condition, maybe $1200 - $1400 body, depending upon who's bidding.

No markings on the lens, so you probably can't promote it as 'Luftwaffen-Eigentum'.
 
Thanks Vince! Do you have the book with all the serials etc?

Now considering that this guy has been to hell and back how much do you think it's worth?
 
Was Kodachrome a fast (?) ASA25 during WW2? I thought it was ASA10.
 
Sparxter said:
Thanks Vince! Do you have the book with all the serials etc?

Now considering that this guy has been to hell and back how much do you think it's worth?
Click to expand...

James Lager's 'Wehrmacht Leica' -- the most definitive book on German military Leicas.

As I mentioned in my previous post (but this is only my personal opinion), I'm thinking $1200-$1400 for the body, maybe a few hundred for the lens. But this may be a case in which you might get more for the pair of them if you sold them together.

Luftwaffe Leicas are funny, in that you can buy one inexpensively one day, and horrendously expensive the next. I had a IIIc red curtain Luftwaffen body that I bought domestically a few years back for $1100, then sold it about a year later for $2400 to someone in South Korea. Here again, different people looking at the same camera might yield different sales results.
 
Thanks again Vince! Sorry I didn't read your last post thoroughly enough. I blame reading while in line at the grocery store. Damn these phones! So I guess I'm off to try to find a Kodak war camera forum. Any suggestions anyone?
 
I can't say whether it's an authentic German Air Force camera, but I'm sure it's a genuine Leica, but it's a real "stepper" from 1941 or 42. Congrats, it's a lucky find!
 
Landshark said:
The stereo cameras most likely are totally unrelated to the Leica.
If they're bakelite or plastic are post war 1954-forward.
Click to expand...

In any case, there has been no recon application for double lens/joint lens small format stereo cameras in WWII, as the 20-60mm base width of contemporary stereo cameras would have been absolutely useless at aircraft altitude. Stereo photography was widely used to distinguish man-made structures and to generate terrain maps, just not with tiny cameras and lenses. To get enough base width for that from altitudes of several kilometres, stereo aerial shots were done successively with the regular recon cameras, tuning the interval so that there was at least 50% overlap between frames. That way, the travel between shots created a base width of tens or even hundreds of meters.

While some stereo lenses/accessories have been recorded as Luftwaffe property, these most likely were used in the hangar, for hull damage and repair documentation.
 
@ square shooter. From my research it looks like the plastic label maker invented by Avery in 1935 didn't become popular until the '50s. So I'm guessing that the previous American or Brittish owner may have put it on after the war. Anyone feel free to chime in on this one. I'd love to know if the US or Brit military used that tech during the war.

@ landshark Sorry no k as you can see I checked that out first thing from reading this forum before terminating my lurking.

@ everyone that may be currios and would like to join me in this mystery. I plan to post more pics but rather than dump them all here right now. I think I will roll them out slowly so it can be more fun. There are still 3 heavy film canisters I haven't cracked yet and will hold off for a little while.
I don't know about you guys but I have dreamed of finding a collectible leica in a sort of garage sale type deal like this for a while. To me it's half the fun. So join me for the ride even though I kind of ruined it by showing the best part of the treasure first.

So with out further ado here is the first two pics. Please, open all pics in order so it may be more fun. Please let me know if anyone has seen any of these items before or has more info on each.

Treasure chest.....on workbench.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5auqjc52lgb2qc/Photo Jun 25, 7 19 38 AM.jpg

Treasure chest open:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kqji5my41plzqo8/Photo Jun 25, 7 23 15 AM.jpg

Anyone seen a case like this before?


Sorry for the tease, but I think many would like a slower reveal. Please chime in if you prefer a slower one by one reveal of the mystery case or would like just a couple shots of everything. I'll take your "votes" into consideration with further posts.

To me the case and all the contents was all the providence I needed to believe this thing is real. I really wasn't looking for authentification by posting only sharing my find with others that may like to discover and or unravel the mystery. I plan to scan the slides next and post a few to see if anyone recognized the landmarks to see where our soldier vacationed after the war.


Thanks again to everyone for their input.
 
Well, it does appear to be a Luftwaffe IIIc. I should mention that I'm not the expert on these, but your photos show all the correct features. Probably not as valuable as you want it to be, but still a really neat camera. Condition is a big part of the value. The lens is not terribly valuable on its own; Hazed extensively, more likely fungus if in a musty leather bag for years, cosmetics, sticky mechanism. Personally, I'd pass unless it was $100 or less. Probably just pass, especially if there's fungus.

I get the feeling the you're interested in selling the camera and not keeping it and fixing it up to functioning condition. Folks here are not going to give you firm valuation, and have hinted as much. It's all market driven. But, I doubt there's additional value in the remaining items (described so far) and the body itself is decidedly not going to fetch $15,000.

My guess is the stereo cameras are quite unrelated to the Leica, except that the owner liked photography and used both cameras. Stereo was very popular in the 50's and lots of people bought stereo cameras for their vacation trips to Yellowstone and so on. Most likely, the Leica came back to the US after the war as a souvenir, was given to someone as a camera to start enjoying photography with (an admired hobby in the 50s). That person became enamored with stereo (as did many photo enthusiasts in the 50s) and kept all his/her cameras in one case. I doubt its more exciting than that.

Kodak stereo cameras, even in real nice condition, aren't particularly valuable. Maybe up to $50 or so. They're common and available. I have at least 2.
 
Thanks sevo and landshark. I thought that probably was the case but happened upon an article from London that spoke of 3d tech helping win the war and couldn't help but let my imagination go there.
 
@rafspen.

I'm here because I love cameras and photography and history. I'm not here to try to sell a camera I got a really good deal on. And I really don't want to sell it I bought it when I thought it was somewhat worthless. I have a bunch of old junk cameras in my collection. And this was going to be my beater Leica that I would go out and shoot with.

I shot with a different IIIc he other day and had a blast just running through an oldd test roll. I impressed myself with shooting without a light meter and hitting exposures pretty much dead on.
When I found out that the Leica was a much sought after model I just wanted to share and unravel a mystery with people that might like to see what I got. And also see if I should keep it in its found state or repair it back to "like" new condition.

I am thankful I found this site because I will have many questions I hope will get answered by reading al the knowledge in the old posts.

So how about a vote. Yeah or nay for restoration. Or just clean it up a bit and start shooting. I was liking how it felt on my shoulder and around my neck. And I may just get the hang of it after all.
 
Well, if you're into rangefinders, I would recommend getting that IIIc into shooting shape. Personally, I'd be thrilled to walk around with that camera. Means more to us rangefinder types than the general public. I still get a lot of nice compliments on my old cameras while out and about. One young lady at the coffee shop counter spotted my IIIa with Canon 28/3.5 and viewfinder and just about shrieked. She knew it was a Leica, and was obviously impressed to have a customer in her store with such a prestigious piece of historical equipment. You can have an even better experience with a Luftwaffe Leica. If I were 30 years younger, I'd use it as an icebreaker with the young woman.

Your camera body is pretty straightforward for "restoration". The lens might be less suitable. If all that white in there is fungus, you're not going to be satisfied with the CLA. If its standard leather-induced haze, you might get lucky and it could clean off real nice. In that case, you'd have a perfectly nice summitar to go on that camera, which is an appropriate lens for it.

I'd also look again at those stereo cameras. Such a fun thing to play with. Those Kodak stereos are solid built and way simple to fix (if there's anything to fix). They eat standard 35mm film and you can easily cut and build your own stereo cards with the negs or prints. If you're interested, ask. Or look for the stereo users groups out there. Its just another fun thing to do with film.

Consumer stereo photography wasn't popular until well after the war. I think someone mentioned earlier that aerial stereo photography is done in a very different manner. As a professional photogrammetrist, I can attest to that. The stereo cameras in your case were used as we would use an SLR on vacation today.

Chances are you can open the film canisters. Very uncommon to find a setup with "exposable" film in one of those. You're almost certain to find standard 35 cartridges. If the film is exposed (went through a camera), you'll know. The tongue will be inside. If the film is unexposed, well...again, you'll know. I'm guessing you're interested in developing the film if its been exposed. I say....do it! I've been developing "found film" for a couple decades now. So interesting to see what you get, and often worth it. I haven't found anything particularly exciting, like a photo of Jimmy Hoffa with his last known acquaintances, but some very touching photos of people clearly using photography to remember important events, people, and places. That's really quite fun.
 
I cracked open the two heavy film canisters after feeling in the dark to make sure on film was inside. Man the engendering of just the cassette is amazing. Welcome me to the club boys and girls cause I think I have been bitten. I also have a lot of exp with film and cameras already. Just new to the rangefinder/ Leica game.
 
The Day-25 label is a 'Dymotape' embossed plastic label. Dymotape wasn't introduced until 1958.

Kodachrome II (25 ASA - daylight) was introduced in 1961 and Kodachrome 25 (again 25 ASA - daylight) was introduced in 1974. The camera could have been used for either, but the earliest date would have been 1961.

Hopes that helps a little.

Regards

Andrew More
 
Even though it looks like you will not be able to sell the camera for a king's ransom, it is still a very good and historically interesting camera, and almost certainly completely genuine. If I were in your shoes I would keep it and use it, but it will definitely need an overhaul first. There are several repair people who have a very good rep on the list. I am a DIY fan myself, and the only repair shop with whom I have experience is DAG, and Don is a very good guy.

Here's a good site showing when a Leica was made according to its serial number.
http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm


Then there is the question of cosmetic restoration. There are many different opinions on this point, but again, in my own personal opinion, it would be good to get new covering for it. I have had very good luck with materials from Cameraleather and Asahi; these are some form of vinyl, which to me is indistinguishable from the original vulcanite, but there is at least one vendor around (sorry, I forgot the name) that provides actual vulcanite material, but at a much higher cost. Then again, there are many who would say that any cosmetic restoration is a form of heresy, and would destroy the value of the camera. Your call.

Cheers,
Dez
 
Thanks again everyone. I work in the camera and photo industry and although I cut my teeth in the eighties with an old ae1 program. My vintage camera knowledge is growing. If anyone wants any info on new Dslrs let me know so I can return the favor. Back in my b&w days all I shot was tmax400 due to being poor and rolling my own. I'm really tempted to do it again with these beautiful canisters.
 
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